Recent Comments on Ideahttp://www.ideastorm.com/services/xml/_idea_details?name=0877000000008CuAAI&community=09a3000000007Tl&ideaTitleLink=%2FideaView2013-05-24T23:25:59.475Zhjwasson commented on Solid State Drive as option in Notebookshjwassonhttps://www.salesforce.com/00a70000004NDNNAA4<b><i>Merged Comment</i></b><br><br>Oops, forgot to mention your RAID 0 comment. Since SATA drives each have their own data cable back to the controller, you don't see data bottlenecks due to saturated data cables like you might have seen with the older PATA drives. I think that the standards that were ratified are just designed with plenty of room for growth <em>(otherwise we'd have new standards every couple of years)</em>. Indeed, you're now seeing SSD drives that come far closer to the bandwidth limit than ever before!hjwasson commented on Solid State Drive as option in Notebookshjwassonhttps://www.salesforce.com/00a70000004NDNMAA4<b><i>Merged Comment</i></b><br><br><strong>nicopoon</strong>, you are correct. SATA2 is a forward looking standard, when today's drives do not come close to exceeding the original specification for <em>sustained throughput</em>. They key word there is sustained. Peak <em>(aka burst)</em> data transmissions from the drive may far exceed the sustained rate. This is due to the HDD's cache memory - any data that is in the cache can go flying down the pipe at warp speed...until it's depleted, and the drive has to fetch the rest of the data request off the platters. Another aspect of the SATA2 specification is NCQ <em>(Native Command Queing)</em>, another feature borrowed from SCSI disk systems. Google it and read up on it if you're curious, but I have it on good authority that it really doesn't come into play in single user systems <em>(and may degrade performance if turned on)</em>.
NCQ shines in server environments, where multiple users data requests may hit a server simultaneously - NCQ goes to work reshuffling the data requests so that the data is pulled off the platter in the most logical order possible <em>(reducing innefficiency while the hard drive armature has to sweep back and forth to gather data)</em>. For example, if data requests came in 1,2,3,4,5 - NCQ might reshuffle the requests 5,2,3,1,4 because fetching the data in this order would reduce the amount of seekig. I'm sure I'm grossly over-simplifying, so if you're interested I recommend you continue looking up info on it.
Back to the subject at hand: Burst cache rates. I think they are only about 50% faster than SSD...which you might consider to be all burst cache - so why the difference? SSD's are non-volatile RAM <em>(aka "Flash Memory," think USB thumb drive - but bigger)</em>, so they don't lose information when they lose power. The cache RAM on your HDD (& indeed your DRAM main memory) is volatile memory, which is faster but is lost if you lose power.
I've seen published SATA HDD burst rates of 100 MB/s, which is still below SATA, but faster than the sustained SSD 60-65 MB/s transfer rates. If the planned Hybrid Drives ever make it to market (I've seen Seagate product sheets for months now), you'll see HDD's with massive amounts of fast DRAM <em>(say 128-256 MB instead of 8-16 MB found on today's drives)</em>. This should make better use of the SATA bandwidth, assuming the drive controller is intelligent enough to guess fairly accurately what data you are going to want next, most of the time.
I wonder if we'll eventually see Hybrid SSD drives, that would combine a massive fast DRAM cache to the already fast drive? It could be that flash RAM technology will continue to get faster (as it has been), and there will be no technical advantage to such a hybrid SSD drive - or it might be that the cost & availability of SSD's improve so much that vendors will have to differentiate their performance products. Exiting times in storage ahead!nicopoon commented on Solid State Drive as option in Notebooksnicopoonhttps://www.salesforce.com/00a70000004NDNBAA4<b><i>Merged Comment</i></b><br><br>HJ: that brings up another question... if even a solid state disk maxes out at 65MB/sec, why does the world need SATA2 when SATA's 150MB/sec is more than 2x the throughput than the disk can produce? That would mean the disk would remain the bottleneck in IO intensive operations. Perhaps that's when RAID0 comes into play....hjwasson commented on Solid State Drive as option in Notebookshjwassonhttps://www.salesforce.com/00a70000004NDLyAAO<b><i>Merged Comment</i></b><br><br>The SSD's are SATA interface! SATA standard has max throughput specification of 150 MB/s, while SATA2 has 300 MB/s. These are peak transfer rates, and are higher than can be maintained. The sustained transfer rate of SSD is far higher than HDD: 60-65 MB/s vs. 15-30 MB/s. Add to that no noise, less power draw, higher MTBF, zero seek times - and you have yourself a very winning new technology. The issues with SSD's are that they have low capacities compared to HDD's, they haven't been in mass production long enough to get real-world failure rate statistics, and they have a very high cost per GB. That will all change as time goes on <em>(though it's a question on whether or not HDD's will stay ahead in terms of lower cost & higher capacities - don't count spinning platters dead yet)</em>!
Here's an informative site that discusses both SSD & HDD usage in test environments:
</pre>shiningarcanine commented on Solid State Drive as option in Notebooksshiningarcaninehttps://www.salesforce.com/00a70000004NDNGAA4<b><i>Merged Comment</i></b><br><br>A SATA version would be nice.nicopoon commented on Solid State Drive as option in Notebooksnicopoonhttps://www.salesforce.com/00a70000004NDNFAA4<b><i>Merged Comment</i></b><br><br>Right, after all if we back it up externally, RAID0 might be a good option. But, expensive I imagine, using 2 x solid state disks. In that case, wouldn't the I/O bottleneck become the SATA interface or front side bus? What's the throughput of the SS disk vs. what the SATA interface can take?hjwasson commented on Solid State Drive as option in Notebookshjwassonhttps://www.salesforce.com/00a70000004NDNDAA4<b><i>Merged Comment</i></b><br><br>Good discussion, Nick! I understand your reasoning. As far as RAID 0 is concerned, I agree with you on the data loss risk with HDD's - but with SSD's having an MTBF of 2,000,000 hours (versus HDD 150,000 hours), I think the risk falls back to acceptable levels <em>(especially if you do drive backups regularly as you already plan to do)</em>. Good luck on your replacement notebook shopping! Drop back here and post what you end up with!nicopoon commented on Solid State Drive as option in Notebooksnicopoonhttps://www.salesforce.com/00a70000004NDN5AAO<b><i>Merged Comment</i></b><br><br>Hi guys,
Interesting... I will indeed wait for the next gen systems, I like Dell systems but right now the other guys have the newer laptops with the dual hard drives and onboard web cams etc. HJ: I should probably have said "very shortly". My system is turning 3 years old next month, time for a new puppy. As for the HD capacity, I've come to think that 32GB is probably OK, which allows me to add a portable external drive for music and other multimedia, + backup, so that I have a copy of the data in case of theft. I'm not a big fan of RAID0 as you increase your risk exponentially, and RAID1 reduces your storage capacity in half. A good external drive is the way to go, IMHO.
Nickhjwasson commented on Solid State Drive as option in Notebookshjwassonhttps://www.salesforce.com/00a70000004NDN4AAO<b><i>Merged Comment</i></b><br><br><strong>Nick</strong>, your request for SSD's on 17" notebooks got my brain firing about all the things I would like to see on the next XPS M1710. If that's a model you're considering purchasing, you might want to pop over to my post and vote on it:
I have included mentions of SSD options, as well as dual storage drive bays (as <strong>benjesuit</strong> just posted here).benjesuit commented on Solid State Drive as option in Notebooksbenjesuithttps://www.salesforce.com/00a70000004NDKpAAO<b><i>Merged Comment</i></b><br><br>Hopefully the new notebooks to debut in June will have dual HDs. This way boot drive could be SSD and aux HD can be whatever you want. RAID 0 of course. If raid is the way they're going to go.hjwasson commented on Solid State Drive as option in Notebookshjwassonhttps://www.salesforce.com/00a70000004NDMyAAO<b><i>Merged Comment</i></b><br><br>Congratulations, <strong>Nick</strong>! Your prayers are answered! Here is your <u>SSD (Solid State Drive)</u>:
Since you are willing to pay for it "right now," You can add it to your order for a mere $549. If the 32 GB capacity <em>(the <u> only</u> capacity currently available)</em> is enough for you, you will indeed have the quietest, fastest performing notebook drive available. Since none of Dell's notebooks currently have more than one HDD/SSD bay, if you need additional storage capacity, you'll have to resort to an external drive enclosure. I recommend using an eSATA ExpressCard adapter & eSATA capable external drive enclosure for optimum results.
Will you be purchasing an <strong>M1710</strong>, <strong>9400</strong>, <strong>E1705</strong>, or <strong>M90</strong>? :-)nicopoon commented on Solid State Drive as option in Notebooksnicopoonhttps://www.salesforce.com/00a70000004NEeFAAW<b><i>Merged Idea</i></b><br><br>Solid state hard drives are the most important innovation to hardware you can get nowadays. They are faster, consume less, break less, and would be perfect for a high performance notebook. Currently Sony has it on their 12-inch G1, but I would buy such a drive for a performance notebook with 17 inch screen and latest SATA interface. Most of the daily tasks today are much more of an I/O workload than CPU.
If that notebook existed today, I would buy it *right now* and be willing to spend much more for the added performance, battery longevity, reliability and silent operations.
Nickrhoxs commented on Solid State Drive as option in Notebooksrhoxshttps://www.salesforce.com/00a70000004NEeYAAW<b><i>Merged Idea</i></b><br><br>Offer a solid state notebook computer with very low power consumption. Lightweight and FAST. Minimize moving parts.
Could work in conjunction with a separate wireless media server when at home or work to run served apps and media.kblobo commented on Solid State Drive as option in Notebookskblobohttps://www.salesforce.com/00a70000004NEeMAAW<b><i>Merged Idea</i></b><br><br>I would like to see Dell come up with a notebook using a solid state hard drive. This would be a great product for those consumers (like me) who use their computer primarily for "light duties" like using the internet, or using basic business tools or consuming media (music, movies, pictures, etc.). The energy savings alone would be substantial. The lower weight, thinner/smaller dimensions, longer battery life and less noise (smaller fan requirements) also offer significant advantages. Additional storage capacity can also be gained through external drives.thamlyn commented on Solid State Drive as option in Notebooksthamlynhttps://www.salesforce.com/00a70000004NDJaAAO<b><i>Merged Comment</i></b><br><br>I'd love to see a SSD hard drive option on notebooks!jervis961 commented on Solid State Drive as option in Notebooksjervis961https://www.salesforce.com/00a70000004NCyCAAW<b><i>Merged Comment</i></b><br><br>I've wanted a new laptop for Vista but I'm waiting for these drives and LED displays to come out.ltcmurray commented on Solid State Drive as option in Notebooksltcmurrayhttps://www.salesforce.com/00a70000004NEeVAAW<b><i>Merged Idea</i></b><br><br>Move from the 20th Century with a total Solid state computer solution.
Remove the hard drive and replace with an array of solid state memory.
reduces power consumption - increase battery life on notebooks
reduce heat load
reduce booting time, both start-up and program launch
eliminate one of the biggest threats to information security, the hard drive "crash"
reduces weight of the overall product also
This is the final step before we will have the 'instant on' computer.ulgrid commented on Solid State Drive as option in Notebooksulgridhttps://www.salesforce.com/00a70000004NDITAA4<b><i>Merged Comment</i></b><br><br>Phase change ram is a new nonvolatile ram solution that has faster read/write speeds then FLASH and doesnt have ion gates that eventually become stuck in one staterobertobiggio commented on Solid State Drive as option in Notebooksrobertobiggiohttps://www.salesforce.com/00a70000004NDHZAA4<b><i>Merged Comment</i></b><br><br>dont think i can offer flash hd, intel santa rosa processor going to eat up bulk of of comp price.ty1323 commented on Solid State Drive as option in Notebooksty1323https://www.salesforce.com/00a70000004NDHOAA4<b><i>Merged Comment</i></b><br><br>Well.... techinically.... You don't really "need" RAM AFTER you install a linux distro... You could use SWAP. Which, on ANY kind of hard drive, can be used to accent (MAYBE even replace ram AFTER installed)