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Dell should follow the 'spirit of Ubuntu' for its Ubuntu systems!

-140 points posted to Linux by limulus 12/19/07



I was all excited to read that "Today, we're adding Ubuntu 7.10 (a.k.a Gutsy Gibbon) to the Dell Consumer Linux line-up for customers in the United States. It will also be available on the Inspiron 530 in England, France, and Germany later this week." but then it was with a bit of horror that I read:

"Pre-installation of [Adobe's] Flash for a better web experience"

and

"we now include built-in DVD movie playback with all Ubuntu 7.10 systems" using LinDVD

So under the guise of 'customer desire' Dell is going contrary to the 'spirit of Ubuntu' by preinstalling non-libre software. What's worse, as confirmed by a second posting:

"Note that this is a closed-source, proprietary application, and is not included on the Ubuntu 7.10 OS media. [...] ISO images DO NOT CONTAIN LinDVD, as LinDVD is a non-free application that is included in the cost of a system purchased with our Ubuntu 7.10 factory-installation. We'll make information available on how this application can be purchased after the holidays."

Apparently Dell thinks that because they can hide the cost of Windows in a regular Dell system, its OK to hide the cost of a proprietary application in their Ubuntu systems.

NO IT IS NOT!!!

If Dell wants to sell LinDVD as an add-on, that's fine, but one of the major draws of Ubuntu is specifically the LACK of proprietary software and its FREE cost. Do not force users to pay for non-libre, non-gratis software by attempting to bundle it into the cost of the hardware!

Also, regarding Adobe's Flash, while most Ubuntu users will likely want it, its again contrary to the 'spirit of Ubuntu' to force users to have it by default. Quoting Mark Shuttleworth:

“I hear you when you say “users want proprietary codecs”. That’s why we make sure these items ARE available, at the user’s option, as packages on the network repositories. That allows users who need that functionality, or who choose that functionality over free alternatives, to exercise that choice freely. We don’t make that choice for them, though of course there is huge demand from real users for that. And we will stay firm in that regard. Ubuntu does not, and will never, include proprietary applications.“

Ubuntu 7.10 will automatically offer Adobe's Flash or the libre Gnash plugin when Firefox encounters a SWF file, so there is NO NEED to bundle it.

So allow me to suggest how Dell can make its Ubuntu systems better:

When a customer orders one, have a software choice like the following, which assumes LinDVD costs $20:

Ubuntu 7.10 [subtract $20]
Ubuntu 7.10 with proprietary codecs (Flash, etc.) [subtract $20]
Ubuntu 7.10 with proprietary codecs (Flash, etc.) and LinDVD player [Included in Price]

Dell could then go all contrary to Ubuntu's philosophy and include things like MP3 support via the gratis but not fully libre fluendo codec but give users a say in the matter.

Alternately, if Dell is going to insist on bundling all sorts of non-libre and non-gratis software and not give the purchasers a choice about it, please stop calling it Ubuntu!

dhart
12/19/07
Yes! Alternately, Dell could include separate selectable line items in their online system configurator for each instance of proprietary software they want to offer to PC buyers (irregardless of the OS). In the case of Linux and popular proprietary add-ons this would mean, for example, separate selectable items for DVD playback, flash playback, etc.
winoffice
12/19/07
"Note that this is a closed-source, proprietary application, and is not included on the Ubuntu 7.10 OS media. [...] ISO images DO NOT CONTAIN LinDVD, as LinDVD is a non-free application that is included in the cost of a system purchased with our Ubuntu 7.10 factory-installation. We'll make information available on how this application can be purchased after the holidays."

What's wrong with Dell offering closed-source software on Ubuntu systems? As Dell itself said, the added closed-source applications are independent of Ubuntu and do not affect Ubuntu's open-sourcedness.
jaybird
12/19/07
If Dell is ever to offer Ubuntu to average PC users they need to provide the functionality those users expect out of the box. Having these types of applications installed is one of the reasons to buy a preconfigured system from Dell in the first place.
aikiwolfie
12/20/07
I don't see anything wrong with offering LinDVD. It removes all ambiguity surrounding the playback of DRM crippled DVDs which is absolutely essential for Dell to make their Ubuntu systems a success. People who decry this move by Dell should note Ubuntu will install proprietary drivers for nvidia graphics cards automatically! Without which Ubuntu wouldn't be able to run Compiz-Fusion. Firefox also gives you a choice to use either the free flash player or the official Adobe player. Which is also free.

People really need to start differentiating between Ubuntu as an independent product and Dells product bundle of LinDVD, Ubuntu and a 530n. At the end of the day Dell sell Linux to make money from an untapped sector of the market. They could just as easily adopt Mandriva or Gentoo Linux and let Ubuntu fall by the way side.
limulus
12/20/07
winoffice wrote: "What's wrong with Dell offering closed-source software on Ubuntu systems? As Dell itself said, the added closed-source applications are independent of Ubuntu and do not affect Ubuntu's open-sourcedness."

The inclusion of proprietary applications runs contrary to the idea of Ubuntu; an all free software operating system. But what I vehemently object to is the inclusion of a program that is not only proprietary but also is not free-cost and the fact that I have no choice about it. Its cost is being bundled into the hardware cost, just like Windows is bundled into the hardware cost for Windows system. I want LinDVD to be made an optional purchase, not a forced one.

aikiwolfie: I use an ATI card that doesn't need proprietary firmware; Dell could make systems like that but they don't; ask them why. Ubuntu has explained its policy on non-libre firmware and only goes that far and only until such time as free firmware is up to par.
aikiwolfie
12/20/07
So are you saying nobody can ever sell a PC/Ubuntu combination if they choose to also bundle in something else that's closed source? That's just stupid. There's plenty of room in the software market for FOSS, OSS and proprietary software.

Besides Dell aren't altering Ubuntu. They are bundling another product with their Linux systems.
sazar
12/20/07
I have to agree with both of Aiki's posts.
s3indiana
12/20/07
If Linux users desire real choice in applications, then those that design products, that the mass population uses, will only port when there's an opportunity for all Linux users to have viable options. That's why choice (http://www.ideastorm.com/article/show/75692/) should be promoted...
aikiwolfie
12/20/07
Choice should indeed be promoted. It's interesting to note that not everything available through CNR is FOSS or even OSS. But Canonical still brokered a deal with Linspire, which now uses Ubuntu as it's base, to support Ubuntu on CNR.
tekhawk
12/20/07
Dell is not trying to sell Ubuntu they are trying to sell a USER FRIENDLY ready to go out of the box linux system for more then just use linux users and *cough cough* overly enthusiastic*cough* open source fans

Dell wants a linux system for everyone sorry but i cannot support this idea I a linux supporter i believe that linux is a better OS then windows or mac i do not believe that open source can do everything everyone needs it to do LEGALLY for now

Dell please give us the Best linux system you can and Thank you for your efforts
logic
12/20/07
I have to agree with sazar's post. :p
aikiwolfie
12/21/07
Could I just ask ... why subtract $20 for flash codecs? Adobes flash player is totally free to use for browsing purposes. Which is what it is designed for. You don't pay for the flash player.
tekhawk
12/21/07
look at that list aikiwolfie the one with flash does not have LinDVD thats whats with the -20 on it and the first option both are without lindvd
virushioyo
12/21/07
i agree tekhawk's post! Dell sell a ubuntu compatible system but not selling ubuntu os which is opensource and free.............we paid for the system not for the OS..........

please continue to give us the BEST linux system like what tekhawk just said!!!!!!!!!!!!
aikiwolfie
12/22/07
So why did you even bother to mention flash? What does flash have to do with it?
tekhawk
12/22/07
he put flash in there because the flash player is closed source even though the opensource one is not ready to really be used some people just simple wont use closed source anymore so he wants the option over removing all closed source software from the system
aikiwolfie
12/22/07
Then he should be asking for Gobuntu.
lengau
Jan 2
How about a compromise? Have this enabled by default (it's more user-friendly, and the average person will want it), but allow customers to check a box to not include anything other than the basic Ubuntu installation.
limulus
Jan 4
reflecting a bit about what's been said here and elsehere, I think the best compromise will end up being something like the No OS Preloaded idea, e.g.:

No OS Preloaded [subtract $20]
Ubuntu 7.10 with proprietary codecs (Flash, etc.) and LinDVD player [Included in Price]

If you voted to promote this idea, please vote for that...
jorge
Jan 31
I see dhart is back, guess he finally answered his e-mail. This one didn't get the same response as his first idea did it.
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