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310

Dell's Commitment to Ubuntu doesnt seem strong enough

310 points posted to Advertising and Marketing, Linux by dwood 11/16/07

Seriously. Before I even pick a laptop I am being told that: "Dell recommends Windows Vista® Home Premium." How much do you get paid for that by Money-Soft? And then on the right side of your site there is this tab-banner that is asking me if I want Windows XP still. Where is the open source link? all the way down at the bottom left hand portion of the site (Least likely section to be looked at)

"You asked, we listened" yeah, right two cheap lines
" For advanced users and tech enthusiasts," Yeah. if only I ddint find Ubuntu easier to use than Windwos.
" we’re happy to offer a new open-source operating system," - and just how many ideas did it take for you guys to "listen" to us?"

"we are soon to be offering Opensuse to users in China?" <-> What about the rest of the world? < I noticed something was wrong there, and fixed it

Seeing little progress, is nice, but MORE would be GREAT!

Why arent you guys puruing Open Source more.... tenaciously?

jervis961
11/17/07		 looks like its time to add to the index. :)
cosh
11/17/07		 @dwood - But since you already know that you want Ubuntu, how they promote it doesn't matter surely?
benjesuit
11/17/07		 IF you want MORE progress there has to be MORE demand. Simple economics 101 stuff.
dwood
11/17/07		 @ jerivs: Gimme a bit.
@ cosh: The whole Idea of getting Dell to sell Ubuntu (or any other Linux distro) in my opinion, Is to promote it to people who have never used it, to show them that there are other Operating Systems than Windows.
benjesuit
11/17/07		 Dwood, where do you get that idea from? The main reason they are selling Ubuntu is because those who already know about it, asked for it. What's more, Dell openly stated that they only expect to sell 20,000 units of it per annum. And as of their last statement, it's selling pretty much as expected. Contrast that against the millions of windows units they sell per quarter.

Ubuntu is not ready for the masses. Debate all you want, but when you can't legally play a DVD or listen to MP3's or M4A's, let alone any DRM protected stuff, it's pretty much worthless to the masses.
underdog1108
11/17/07		 Excuse me but Ubuntu is certainly ready for the masses. The only limitation of Ubuntu at this point is lack of promoters and lack of commercial support. It is NOT a limitation of the technology!! Ubuntu is ready; the question is: Is the world ready for it.
winoffice
11/17/07		 I already submitted an idea suggesting that Dell advertise/recommend Ubuntu -- the name of the idea is "Should Dell recommend five operating systems?"
aikiwolfie
11/17/07		 openSUSE in China is for corporate users. The rest of the world gets Red Hat (I think), Ubuntu is for home users. Although it would actually be just as good in the office.

But I agree. It's high time Dell moved up a gear with Ubuntu. Many people have said it works fine on higher end systems. So what's the hold up Dell? Why can't we have Ubuntu on something decent? Do I have to mention again it works on an XPS 700? I've personally tried and tested it. It works.
benjesuit
11/17/07		 Sure underdog. Sure. LOL. Who said anything about technology? When Tiffany can't use her Ipod with Ubuntu... When Joey can't play his DRM Mp3's he bought online... When Mike can't play the latest PC games... When Laura can't watch a DVD she rented off netflix...

Who exactly is Ubuntu ready for?

Perhaps the advanced user who knows how to get around these limitations? You know, the advanced user Dell is pitching Ubuntu to? Users like me, perhaps even you, who know where to go to download and then install the necessary opensource software and codecs that do not come with Ubuntu.

Let's be realistic.
aikiwolfie
11/17/07		 There are apparently perfectly legal Linux DVD players out there. I don't know why Dell can't just bundle one long with it's Ubuntu line the same as they do with Windows?
dwood
11/17/07		 This is realistic! you CAN use your ipod with ubuntu! I do all the time. There are tons of DRM players for Ubuntu! Where do you get that Idea ben?
benjesuit
11/17/07		 Dwood, I know they exist. See my comment above.

But they are not legal to own in the US and several other territories. And that's why they are not bundled with Ubuntu.
aikiwolfie
11/17/07		 When someone buys a Dell with Windows they get a media player with Dell written all over it. Why can't Dell just write a media player for Linux. Problem solved.
aikiwolfie
11/17/07		 It's very simple benjesuit. Put Ubuntu on better systems that are more likely to sell in higher numbers. Personally I want a laptop running Ubuntu. I would prefer it was a Dell. Then all my kit is coming from the same place. But I'll never buy the laptop Dell are currently offering with Ubuntu. It's just not powerful enough for my needs.
benjesuit
11/17/07		 Yes, that would make sense to put Ubuntu on higher spec systems considering the target audience which Dell labels, "advanced users and enthuiasts."

But if Dell markets their systems as multimedia systems, Ubuntu, with its lack of codecs, wouldn't make an appropriate match. Considering what Ubuntu offers out-of-the-box, a low end system would be the most appropriate match. That's not to say you can't do a whole lot more with Ubuntu, but again, we're talking out of the box.

What's needed is a commercial version of Ubuntu. A version you pay for that has all the necessary legal codecs and polished software to run them. Then maybe Dell can start thinking about offering Ubuntu on higher spec systems. Until then or something similiar takes place, I seriously doubt Dell will.
dwood
11/17/07		 Whats wrong with it being Legal and free? You are making Ubuntu seem like something that is illegal.
benjesuit
11/17/07		 You misread. There's nothing wrong with being legal and free. I'm all for it. But the codecs must be licensed in order for it to be legally used. Someone has to pay unless the owners of the codecs decide to give them away for free.
dwood
11/17/07		 ...money is the root of all evil.
aikiwolfie
11/17/07		 Advanced users and enthusiasts tend to buy gaming rigs. Ubuntu works fine on my XPS 700. Now Dell could sort out the codec problem buy selling Ubuntu based systems with a legal media player. If one doesn't exist, which it does, then Dell are in a position to write one.
benjesuit
11/17/07		 And Dell would contract to code this software because... why? They don't even bother writing software for their mainstream desktop users. That's not Dell's business. And if they were to enter into the software business, wouldn't you think they'd start in an area where they are more sure to profit instead of a fringe niche market like Desktop Linux?
benjesuit
11/17/07		 @dwood, I believe the saying is "the LOVE of money that is the root of all evil."
aikiwolfie
11/17/07		 So what is PC Tune Up? Or the new support tool? Or all the drivers they write? Must be someones imagination.
dwood
11/17/07		 Well. I just left out the LOOOOOOOVE of . im not an idiot, I know my stuff.
benjesuit
11/17/07		 They contract other companies to code it. Same goes for their drivers. But these things are NECESSARY for their bottom line. You can't sell a PC without drivers. PC Tune up directly affects Dell's bottom line because it meaningfully reduces their customer service costs and increases the likelihood of customer retention.
dwood
11/17/07		 *duh*
benjesuit
11/17/07		 Yeah, exactly. *duh*. It is a no brainer. But it seems to have needed to be said since it was brought up as a sort of evidence that Dell is in the software business which they are not.
dwood
11/17/07		 they could be, like mac, and produce higher-quality products.
aikiwolfie
11/17/07		 It doesn't matter who actually writes the software! Dell puts their name on it. Dell pays for it.
jervis961
11/17/07		 Linux still needs some more polish for me to switch. I like the cost factor but I don't want a computer that cannot run the software I use. The lack of multimedia support is a real downer.
dwood
11/17/07		 It has the multimedia stuff. Its better than Windows. you should try out a live disk and see what I mean.
jervis961
11/17/07		 I have tried, its not bad but It locked up my computer after 5 minutes.
dwood
11/17/07		 Mine worked flawlessly. :)
jervis961
11/17/07		 I have a Dell laptop, what were you using?
aikiwolfie
11/17/07		 Some Dell laptops did have issues with Ubuntu. You should check out the Wiki. Which version did you try? I think the problems have been resolved in Gusty (7.10).
jervis961
11/17/07		 I used gutsy
aikiwolfie
11/17/07		 Oh giblets (I'm not allowed to say D a m n???)! Which laptop do you have? Sometimes you need to use safe graphics mode for the Live CD.
jervis961
11/18/07		 Inspiron 6000 with the ATI mobility x300 2gb ram 1.8 ghz centrino processor.
aikiwolfie
11/18/07		 Have you tried the safe graphics mode yet? The ATI graphics is the culprit. In spite of ATI being all gun ho for open source their drivers have issues with Linux. It will supposedly work with the safe graphics mode.
dwood
11/18/07		 remember: by default until the drivers get installed, no eye candy will be on.
premcv
11/19/07		 Interesting thoughts dwood, wolfie.
aikiwolfie
11/19/07		 I'm not sure if Compiz-Fusion even works in safe graphics mode. I installed Linux on an old IDE drive. I just put it in a USB case and plugged it in. I had to disable my internal hard drives for the installation but afterwards it all works fine.
premcv
11/19/07		 Does the Compfiz-Fusion work on that? Because, I've heard that it doesn't work in Safe graphics too.
aikiwolfie
11/19/07		 Well the term "safe graphics" would tend to suggest that it won't. Think of it as kind of like Windows safe mode but not nearly as restricted.
premcv
11/19/07		 Hmmm. I thought so!
dwood
11/19/07		 yeah. there is no way Linux safe-mode is as restrictive as M$ windows safe mode.
premcv
11/19/07		 That's absolutely true. M$ safe mode is crazy, the best (if you consider it that) would be the Safe mode with Networking.
dwood
11/19/07		 yeah. and even then, with IE you can still get viruses from online >.<
premcv
11/19/07		 Yep! That's true!
aikiwolfie
11/19/07		 Well considering Windows likes to download updates while nobody is logged in you could get a virus just by having the modem plugged in. Absolutely crazy.
premcv
11/19/07		 Yea, I've read the recent reports, quite crazy and quite crazy. Thank heavens for portable HDD. Imagine if a hacker found this route to get into your system! Not to say they haven't. WOW!
aikiwolfie
11/19/07		 Glad I'm moving to Ubuntu permanently. Anybody know how to migrate an Nvidia stripe raid setup to a single disk without losing any data?
dwood
11/19/07		 ...... I would just reinstall the drivers lol because I dont use raid. One graphics card for me is good enough.
aikiwolfie
11/19/07		 I'm actually more concerned about losing the Dell Utility partition and stuff like that. I still need a Windows installation to do cross platform testing. My plan was to reduce Windows to a single drive and give Ubuntu the others over to Ubuntu.

But if needs be I'll just wipe it clean and start from scratch.
dwood
11/19/07		 DUDE! thats perfect! Just use Ubuntu to resize the windows partition on wanted drive for the smaller and divide the larger space into a second partition, delete that partition (to make it free space) and tell Ubuntu to install on the largest running free space on a said drive. It may sound confusing but thats really all there is to it.
aikiwolfie
11/19/07		 Ubuntu can't read Nvidia raid.
dwood
11/19/07		 Unless you download the drivers for it after you install ubuntu (yes, Nvidia does come out with drivers for it)
aikiwolfie
11/20/07		 interesting ... all I've been able to dig up is some dmraid nonsense that doesn't work.
aikiwolfie
11/20/07		 According to the NVIDIA website there are no drivers for the nForce 5 Series 590 chipset.
dwood
11/20/07		 .... I got drivers for Opensuse.
aikiwolfie
11/20/07		 Did you get them from opensuse of from nvidia? I think I'll check out the opensuse site.
dwood
11/20/07		 it was a 1-click download lol the help in desktop effects showed me.
aikiwolfie
11/21/07		 Desktop effects? Are you talking about graphics? I'm talking about hard drives? Anyway I'll check it out.
dwood
11/21/07		 Any HD works for Ubuntu..... dont know what ur talkin about.
aikiwolfie
11/21/07		 Any HD works but nvidias pants raid setup doesn't work. Doesn't matter anyways.
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