Sell the PS3 in dell.com/open with the PS3 Linux

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Sell the PS3 in dell.com/open with the PS3 Linux

60 points posted to Dell, Gaming, Linux by jmxz 11/06/07

I am in the market to buy a PS3.

As a followup to the observation that Dell has perhaps the best deals anywhere on the PS3 However that particular great deal from Dell's web site is a bundle with stuff I really don't care about (Spiderman 3, etc).

Instead of (only) positioning it as a gaming platform, how about adding it to Dell.com/open as one of your Ubuntu-capable platforms as well. Yes, the PS3's run Ubuntu, so it's already an OS Dell's comfortable with.

Some Dell competitors provide good information about linux programming the PS3.

So, the Idea is that Dell should add the PS3 to Dell.com/open. You don't really need to make any changes - seeing that Linux is already supported there; and noone expects pre-installed software on a gaming console anywhere. A nice to have would be a printed list of instructions (like in the link above) walking the user through the process.

Instead of Spiderman3 and games, please also offer accessories like the HDMI->DVI converter cable people some may need if your monitor doesn't have component video or HDMI inputs.

Yes, I know it's silly; but all-other-things-being-equal, I'd (and probably many of your dell.com/open customers) probably feel better buying the PS3 from someone who helps me get Linux running on it than someone who doesn't.

kenjennings 11/06/07	Sony already has been working closely with Terrasoft Solutions to put Yellow Dog Linux on the PS3. Dell would do better to stick with YDL, an established distro specifically intended for the power pc architecture. Dell's prices on the PS3 are great. If they had a PS3 bundle with YDL and their current pricing strategy I'd get one.
jmxz 11/07/07	Kenjennings: "...YDL..." That's fair, but PS3 is also apparently a supported target platform for Ubuntu. "Dell's prices on the PS3 are great. If they had a PS3 bundle with YDL and their current pricing strategy I'd get one." Me too.
aikiwolfie 11/08/07	Most off the popular Linux distributions including Ubuntu offer support for a range of CPU architectures. I doubt Ubuntu would face any serious problems with the PS3. It's also not a stupid idea. There are a few threads on IdeaStorm now asking for Linux gaming rigs and more powerful Linux rigs in general. Perhaps Dell should work with Sony to iron out any remaining compatibility issues.
yaknowwat Mar 8	The idea of a Desktop Operating System on a gaming rig is nice and all but its just not worth it as a gaming station is meant to render graphics not from desktop processing the abilities of the PS3 are over hyped as the amount of FLOP/s it produces are no better than that of a 7600GS Nvidia Graphics card. It is also limited by the amount of RAM it can sustain 256MiB of RAM is a horrible cripple good desktop environments take 50-120MiB of RAM then the operating system components take even more. As nice as it sounds you can make a far superior $300-500 system if you want Linux on a PS3 it'd be better you do it yourself.
aikiwolfie Mar 8	I'm sorry but did you read what you just posted? All computer systems including games consoles have operating systems. The PS3 as well as being able to run Linux also has it's proprietary OS. Or did you think games console games ran on bare hardware?
yaknowwat Mar 8	^ I typed it kinda fast but yes i know gaming systems use an operating system but the operating system used in gaming systems tends to be very bare. I was just try to state using a gaming system as a Desktop and disturbuting it isn't worth it as it is more hype than anything else. A gaming rig is normally no more than a hardware locked design of a cheap desktop with a decent GPU and an operating system that is mainly a loader to play games.
aikiwolfie Mar 9	The PS3 OS does more than just load games. It manages the PS3. It does what an OS is meant to do and no more. The user interface that comes with the PS3 is as advanced as any desktop. If Microsoft and Apple didn't integrate applications software so tightly with their OSs you'd get the same functionality in Windows and OS X as you get in the PS3s native OS. It might be worth noting that an awful lot of awful cheap PCs roll off the production line every year. Dells own Vostro line isn't really anything to shout about. But Dell will call it an entry level PC charge you £129 for a base configuration with Microsoft Windows Vista Home Basic pre-installed along with all the other bloat ware you don't want and don't need. The PS3 with Linux would kick a basic Vostros silicon arse at desktop applications. And it'll play a few games too. That to me makes a lot of sense for a home user that wants to play the latest games, brows the web, send and receive e-mail and use the system as a multi-media center. But doesn't want to use Windows or pay nearly £2000 for an XPS 720. So £400-odd for a PS3 with Linux that can do everything an XPS 720 can do that costs £1000+. The PS3 would seem to be the smarter choice with more value for money.
yaknowwat Mar 9	,,, the PS3 is over hyped (just about every gaming console is.). The only real advantage i can think of is blue ray which is falling in price nowadays. (its hit under 150USD around 80EURO's) You can build a machine with far more power and capabilities than a PS3 for around 400 USD which is around £ 200 - 250 fregn dell comment system is screwing up sentences...bad filter my ... /G /U /E /S /S http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856167010 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822210004 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127296 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106227 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820211165 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103774 / A machine with those specs is a far more capable Desktop than a PS3 as the hardware is much faster there is more available RAM than the PS3's 256MiB limit no you can't increase that. So you know the 8800GT uses a cell processing architecture that has 2 times more raw processing power in itself than the PS3 has altogether. "If Microsoft and Apple didn't integrate applications software so tightly with their OSs you'd get the same functionality in Windows and OS X as you get in the PS3s native OS." they don't integrate them tightly in the OS they say they do but in all truth its a lie PS3's native OS doesn't need a lot of hardware support so they give it what it needs for the hardware it runs thats it same idea as the old MAC PPC's.
aikiwolfie Mar 9	The trouble with cheap PCs is that they are normally cheap in more areas than just the price. I know this because I have repaired far too many of them not to have noticed. Now I doubt you can build a proper gaming rig for £200 - £250. I'm not seeing anything like that being pushed into stores here in the UK. Now as for the last quoted comment. I wasn't talking about hardware. I was talking about application software. Things that Apple and Microsoft ship with the OS as part of the OS. Strip all of that out and you're effectively left with the same as what you get with a PS3 out of the box.
yaknowwat Mar 9	aikiwolfie the gaming rigs are expensive because of how many patents that have to be bought/purchased the rigs new build cost is probably around £ 10 - 25. Also consider paying people to make nearly perfected drivers to work with a system and its core components along with a set of API's. There is also the fact that there are loads of systems that are never sold and pretty much go to waste. If you were talking about a Desktop Gaming rig that is because desktop components are always advancing along with games so the gaming rig of today is the average desktop of tomorrow. The advantage's gaming consoles have or desktops is the more precisely created drivers and a much lighter OS possibly optimized too.
aikiwolfie Mar 10	Hang on a minute. Virtually everything in the XPS 700 was off the shelf. It already existed. Dell bought in components from suppliers and put them together to make a gaming PC. I'm not really sure what patents Dell filed for that, but with off the shelf components they shouldn't have to file any patents. Sorry but that last post just didn't make much sense at all.
yaknowwat Mar 10	I'm sorry when i was talking about patents im talking about game consoles like the PS3 as they need to check patent's on all that stuff pay the developers of the technology to bring it to its most optimal performance with drivers as the hardware will never change maybe a few extensions but that would be it. Computers have this problem too but there is more competition for the core parts of a computer as compared to a gaming console. What do you think happens when someone states a discovery. Normally someone will wait until patents are taken care of for a discovery before announcing it. From there they sell the patents of the discovery off for whatever they can get. A company also has to pay their employs to improve things and try to make discoveries for that. Also remember a gaming console is design on pretty much a single platform so a company wants a gaming console to be able to utilize itself to it max capabilities. Anyways making a cheap ultimate gaming PC never works out (then again neither does an expensive gaming PC from 1-2 years ago.) because the idea of a cheap gaming PC just never works out because people want to spend money to get the top hardware. Also remember games for computers these days are much more graphics intensive than that in a game console (things are left out in a game console to keep performance if the PS3 had to (could) process the desktop version of something like crysis you would feel more lagg from it as compared to a PC of similar cost to the PC. If the PPC architecture was really worth keeping for desktop applications Apple Mac's would more than likely never have switched to intel Mac's. With the Mac PPC's they had everything optimized for the PPC architecture to improve performance but they still chose to switch. - reading this looks more confusing than the other post i can't type anymore for now so im not going to fix it.
aikiwolfie Mar 10	It's totally confusing. basically you seem to being saying the PS3s architecture is far superior to a PC. I wouldn't go that far but if you want to play games and have a cheap desktop PC then the PS3 is more than capable of filling both roles.
yaknowwat Mar 10	Wow i guess that comment was way confusing. PS3 : - Designed for graphics rendering. - Best Support for drivers to API in Gaming Console mode - Is capable of being a Desktop. - Is very limited on hardware options used. PC : - Designed to be robust (this is a big plus) - Driver support needs to be more broad to allow usage of different API's and their techinques. - If an issue occurs it can easily be diagnosed. - Upgrading is available When a PS3 becomes a PC it takes on the issue's of a PC and keeps its own issues as a PS3 even possible new ones arise. Basically what happens is the PS3 loses its perfect driver support for weaker drivers making its performance decrease, The hardware on the PS3 is very limiting 256MiB can be show stopper especially with linux and modern applications and environments. The Cell architecture can cause issues with some programs even if linux is supported. Also since the PS3 isn't interchangeable you lose the ability for an easy diagnostic and repair. You stated a PS3 is does better on applications than a Desktop Processor this is not quite true. Mac PPC's used Cell processors like the PS3 but they switched over to Intel MultiCores because they were more powerful and effiecent for Application use. The PS3 Cell Processor is more like the GPU in the Nvidia GeForce 9900GT sets though with less than half(possibly even a third) the power, These Cell Architectures accelerate in raw FLOP/s but FLOP/s are more useful in Graphics Processing than they are for Desktop Application Processing. I will admit though the PS3 and its Cell Architecture would make a decent Web surfing Machine as modern Web Pages use graphics quite often. When I was talking about patents, I was talking about before the retailer, the companies where the technology is designed such as Intel Nvidia ATI AMD VIA. A retailer only adds some of their own cost into it for assembly and other small charges (sometimes large). For Gaming consoles though they are pretty cheap to manufacture but more refined effort is put into optimizing things for a console because it is a set of locked down hardware. With this effort as you develop anything you have to watch out for patents and if there is a patent in your way you have to pay for it normally this is millions. Then because you have a locked down set of hardware you want to put more effort in making sure things run smoothly and to their full potential thus more cost for development is put into a single item as compared to desktop parts where interchangeability is a factor making it so you cant do major optimization. Gah reading this im starting to stumble try to explian (im horrible at explaining with words.) Short cheap explaination : PS3 = optimized for its basic console use giving it the ability to do more in this state. PS3 + Desktop OS = Loss of optimization bring PS3's power down to what a desktop with its power is capable of. Desktop = Made to do desktop things like to have changeable part, and support for many things. PS3 + Desktop OS vs. Desktop = Desktop of same (or even lower) cost has more raw power and in a desktop environment this can help a lot. Desktops have more changeable parts allows for easy upgrading and are easier to diagnose. PS3 + Desktop OS you could always switch back to gaming console mode from what I've heard.
aikiwolfie Mar 11	Okay hang on a minute. when you're talking about the PC being designed to be robust, are you talking about the hardware or the software? What APIs are you talking about? Windows APIs? The PS3 won't need to be upgraded for another few years. It's not a concern for the PS3. Now here's the thing. Without an OS, the PC is just a box and the same is true of the PS3. Now Linux has been designed to be compatible with a wide range of hardware. Including the hardware you'll find in the PS3. PC drivers aren't an issue for Linux on the PS3. It won't be running them. As for APIs. Linux doesn't work the same way as Windows. It's kernel has no API. Why do you keep going on about raw power? How much raw power does an e-mail client need? You really need to step outside of the PC box for a minute. This isn't a comparison of raw processing power. That's not even a factor.
yaknowwat Mar 11	@aikiwolfie if your going to be reading email browsing the internet (for small amounts of time or just very little flash) the PS3 will be fine. What i am saying though is the PS3 is very limited mainly because it's design is locked down to very little upgrading for low cost and it only have 256 Physical RAM is very bad. Yes the PS3 can work as a desktop but your aren't going to get better performance that of a pretty cheap desktop. If something breaks on it the entire system needs to be shipped to the manufacture if they are willing to repair it as compared to a desktop is something goes bad on it you can exchange parts easily.
aikiwolfie Mar 11	256MB of RAM is plenty for browsing the web and reading e-mail on a Linux platform. It's also plenty for playing mp3s and doing most of the basic stuff. Word processing wasn't invented with Windows Vista. 256MB of RAM used to be a lot. By the way the PS3 has done very well running the folding@hom software.

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