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380

How About Not Selling Windows Computers For Cheaper Than Linux!!

380 points posted to Inspiron products, Linux by joelinux 11/01/07

The Inspiron 1420 with Windows Vista starts at $699, while the Inspiron 1420 N with Ubuntu Linux starts at $724!! What in the world is going on here? Ubuntu is free software, while Vista can cost upwards of $400! Yet, somehow the Vista computer is less than the Ubuntu computer? I understand that Microsoft is paying Dell subsidies, but this is ridiculous. The Ubuntu offering should not even be a separate model, it should just be a different operating system choice when opting to purchase a computer. Why would Dell even bother selling Ubuntu, if it's more expensive? Who is going to want that? It's scary enough for Windows users to switch to Ubuntu, now it has to be MORE EXPENSIVE, too? I'm really to the point where I'm going to begin spreading the word to people NOT to buy from Dell, until this is drastically changed. What Dell is doing is nothing less than insulting to the Linux community. When you click "View All Notebooks", the Ubuntu notebooks don't even show up! When I searched the site for "inspiron 1420 n", I found the Windows version, and no Ubuntu version to be found! SOMEONE PLEASE CHANGE THIS BEHAVIOR!

It's like you accepted a nice picture frame from someone for Christmas and pretended that you loved it, and you display it on the top shelf in the garage! You can still claim that you display it, BUT NO ONE KNOWS IT'S THERE!

jorge
11/01/07		 Yes, we have issues with this and not to mention countless ideas on it as well. I blows that an OS valued at more then $0 makes a computer cost less than an OS which retails at $0. Dell hasn't said jack about that but yes we know its subsidized how else would such an OS end up costing less, total BS we agree.
cosh
11/01/07		 Oh my shining screwdrivers I pressed the wrong vote button! That'll teach me to browse with images off. :'( Sorry joelinux!
badblood
11/01/07		 I demoted because cosh demoted.
mkmaster78
11/01/07		 gotta demote, bad business sense. A linux box costs Dell more to put out than a Windows one, why should they charge less? (And yes I know it costs less because of subsidies, but I really don't care, I can always put Linux on it later, it's not like it takes more than 45-60 min to download a DVD on a 7MB connect. And I always duel-boot so the Windows liscence is useful.)
cosh
11/01/07		 Oh thanks a lot now you're degrading the whole concept of the Ubuntu series.
mkmaster78
11/01/07		 To be flat blunt, I couldn't care less if Ubuntu keeled over tomorrow. I'm glad Dell is supporting Linux, I think it's a great idea, but I am not for Dell losing a big profit margin because some in the Linux community can't add and subtract well enough to see that, for Dell and most other hardware manufacturers, Linux boxes are more costly to distribute. They get a subsidy from Microsoft, and that's fine, but people need to realize that, and just move on with their lives.
jorge
11/01/07		 Well I can do the same with a computer I buy with Linux, I can always install Windows later and for even less than what Dell gets it for, and its legal.

More costly? Build the box and wrap it, how's that more expensive then sticking Microstuff in there?
winoffice
11/01/07		 Oops, I meant to demote! Anyway, I wanted to demote because Vista does NOT cost $400 when preinstalled - it costs $50 to $199. Besides, this is a duplicate!
badblood
11/01/07		 winoffice promoted!
jorge
11/01/07		 Well if he really supports Windows he should, it would give them more money to continue development of Windows, I am surprised the Windows people never want to pay for their supposedly super OS.
dwood
11/01/07		 Winoffice, are you going that off the prices included in your spam emails? Seriously. 50 dollars ffor MS Office 2008!

And anyone else in here, who thinks that it costs more for *nix to be installed than for Vista, I know for a fact that you are not right. Good Vista costs upwards of $200. Its also one of the most confusing things ever made. In the long run, Ubuntu will be cheaper than Windows.

This whole Ubuntu thing is mostly just an experiment to see if they can start getting customers interested in it.

I dont see why you guys insist on this, because not enough people are interested in Ubuntu yet. It will take some time, because not everyone will be looking for new computers is why it is more strategic for them to sell Windows at a cheaper price.

I hope you can see my point in there.
jorge
11/01/07		 Well if we talk "worth" or "value" no way, I'd pay for Linux even if it was more than Windows, but luckily its not.

Don't fear what you do not know dwood. Countless products and research are completely done on Unix computers, which without your precious Windows would be nothing more than a box on a shelf.
mkmaster78
11/01/07		 @jorge linux is more expensive in the fact that Microsoft will subsidize hardware, thus they can sell Windows PC's for less, as I said before.
@dwood if you buy Office 2007 as a student you can get it for under $70. And Vista can be bought buy anyone for around $130 or less. It's called shopping around and getting System Builder versions.
winoffice
11/01/07		 dwood: Windows Vista BY ITSELF costs $99-$399, but Windows Vista PREINSTALLED costs $50-$199. It is the PREINSTALLED versions that you get with a PC (which, in terms of features, is just the same as the by itself versions).

Dell issued a release on IdeaStorm saying that Windows Vista Home Basic would cost $50 more than Ubuntu, and if you go to any Dell configuration page, you will see that you can upgrade from Home Basic (the cheapest edition) to Ultimate (the most expensive edition) for $149. Thus, although Windows Vista costs at most $399 by itself, it costs at most $199 preinstalled. Besides, I believe that I said "preinstalled" the last time.
dwood
11/01/07		 ah, missed that pre- suffix.
aikiwolfie
11/03/07		 I've just been looking at the Ubuntu PC Dell offers here in the UK the Inspiron 530n or 530 after a few modifications. I configured both the Ubuntu system and the Windows XP system to have as near the exact same specification I could. What I discovered is when both systems have exactly the same hardware specification the Ubuntu system is still more expensive. But not by much.

The Ubuntu system cost £424.00 as opposed to £404.16 for the same hardware with Windows XP Home Edition. It should also be noted that with the cheaper Windows XP Home Edition PC consumers are forced to accept Microsoft Works 8.0. Under their original configurations the Ubuntu system cost £398.99 and the Windows system cost £328.91.

I think Dell needs to start explaining why these discrepancies exist. Both Windows and Works 8.0 are PAID FOR software titles. Ubuntu and all of it's associated packages are FOSS or at least free. I'd also like to know why Dell exadurates the savings to it's consumers. The default specifications just aren't comparable. The Windows system comes with a cheaperCeleron CPU!!! By default! It also comes with an inferior ATI graphics card where the Ubuntu system has a more expensive NVIDIA graphics card.

What makes me angry here is not the price difference. It's as near to nothing as makes no difference. What makes me angry is the deception. The average consumer will never look at these systems as I did and pick apart the specification and rebuild it to make them comparable. I feel Dell are more than likely praying on this fact and deceiving their consumers.

Most people will think the original specification Windows system is a better deal. When in fact it's not. It's essentially an old outdated PC no body else would buy.

Here are the fixed specifications so that both systems can be directly compared.

Ubuntu 7.04

Components

PROCESSOR N-Series-Intel® Pentium® Dual-Core E2140 Processor (1.6GHz,800MHz,1MB cache)
OPERATING SYSTEM Ubuntu Desktop Edition Version 7.04
MONITOR Dell™ 19" Silver Wide Flat Panel (SE198WFP) - UK/Irish
MEMORY 1024MB 667MHz Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM [2x512]
HARD DRIVE 250GB (7200rpm) Serial ATA Hard Drive with 8MB DataBurst™ cache
GRAPHICS CARD 128MB nVidia® GeForce® 8300GS Turbocache graphics card
OPTICAL DRIVE 16x DVD +/- RW Drive
KEYBOARD Dell™ Entry Quietkey USB Keyboard - UK/Irish (QWERTY)
MOUSE Dell 2 Button USB Scroll Optical Mouse - Black

Accessories

SOUND SOFTWARE Integrated 7.1 Channel High Definition Audio
SPEAKERS No Speakers
FLOPPY/MEDIA DRIVES No Floppy Drive
MODEMS No Modem

Services & Software

HARDWARE SUPPORT 1 Year Base Warranty - Collect & Return
LINUX SUPPORT No Ubuntu Support
ACCIDENTAL DAMAGE SUPPORT No Accidental Damage Support

Also included with your system

Gedis Bundle Reference Inspiron 530 - Ubuntu
Dell System Media Kit N-Series Resource DVD - contains Diagnostics and Drivers
Shipping Documents English Documentation with UK/Irish Power Cord
Order Information Inspiron Desktop Order Uk
Standard Warranty 1 Year Base Warranty - Collect & Return
Online Promotion Option for GEDIS Configs Dell Internet Order.

Windows XP Home Edition

Components

PROCESSOR Intel® Pentium® Dual-Core E2140 Processor (1.6GHz,800MHz,1MB cache)
OPERATING SYSTEM Genuine Windows® XP Home Edition - English
MONITOR Dell™ 19" Silver Wide Flat Panel (SE198WFP) - UK/Irish
MEMORY 1024MB 667MHz Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM [2x512]
HARD DRIVE 250GB (7200rpm) Serial ATA Hard Drive with 8MB DataBurst™ cache
GRAPHICS CARD 256MB NVIIDA® GeForce® 8300GS Turbocache graphics card
OPTICAL DRIVE 16x DVD +/- RW Drive
KEYBOARD Dell™ Entry Quietkey USB Keyboard - UK/Irish (QWERTY)
MOUSE Dell 2 Button USB Scroll Optical Mouse - Black

Accessories

SOUND SOFTWARE Integrated 7.1 Channel High Definition Audio
SPEAKERS No Speakers
FLOPPY/MEDIA DRIVES No Floppy Drive
MODEMS No Modem
MICROSOFT SOFTWARE Microsoft® Works 8.0 - English

Services & Software

HARDWARE SUPPORT 1 Year Base Warranty - Collect & Return
ACCIDENTAL DAMAGE SUPPORT No Accidental Damage Support
SECURITY SOFTWARE No Security/Anti-Virus Protection - English

Also included with your system

Dell System Media Kit Resource DVD - (Diagnostics & Drivers)
Shipping Documents English Documentation with UK/Irish Power Cord
Gedis Bundle Reference D115008
Order Information Inspiron Desktop Order Uk
Standard Warranty 1 Year Base Warranty - Collect & Return
Money Off - Shows in Strikethrough Money Off - 20 £ Inc Vat
Online Promotion Option for GEDIS Configs Dell Internet Order.

Here are the original configurations.

Ubuntu 7.04

Components

PROCESSOR N-Series-Intel® Pentium® Dual-Core E2140 Processor (1.6GHz,800MHz,1MB cache)
OPERATING SYSTEM Ubuntu Desktop Edition Version 7.04
MONITOR Dell™ 19" Silver Wide Flat Panel (SE198WFP) - UK/Irish
MEMORY 512MB 667MHz Single Channel DDR2 SDRAM [1x512]
HARD DRIVE 160GB (7200rpm) Serial ATA Hard Drive with 8MB DataBurst™ cache
GRAPHICS CARD 128MB nVidia® GeForce® 8300GS Turbocache graphics card
OPTICAL DRIVE 16x DVD +/- RW Drive
KEYBOARD Dell™ Entry Quietkey USB Keyboard - UK/Irish (QWERTY)
MOUSE Dell 2 Button USB Scroll Optical Mouse - Black

Accessories

SOUND SOFTWARE Integrated 7.1 Channel High Definition Audio
SPEAKERS No Speakers
FLOPPY/MEDIA DRIVES No Floppy Drive
MODEMS No Modem

Services & Software

HARDWARE SUPPORT 1 Year Base Warranty - Collect & Return
LINUX SUPPORT No Ubuntu Support
ACCIDENTAL DAMAGE SUPPORT No Accidental Damage Support

Also included with your system

Gedis Bundle Reference Inspiron 530 - Ubuntu
Dell System Media Kit N-Series Resource DVD - contains Diagnostics and Drivers
Shipping Documents English Documentation with UK/Irish Power Cord
Order Information Inspiron Desktop Order Uk
Standard Warranty 1 Year Base Warranty - Collect & Return
Online Promotion Option for GEDIS Configs Dell Internet Order.

Windows XP Home Edition

Components

PROCESSOR Intel® Celeron® 420 Processor (1.6GHz,800MHz,512k cache)
OPERATING SYSTEM Genuine Windows® XP Home Edition - English
MONITOR Dell™ 17" Silver Wide Flat Panel (SE178WFP) - UK/Irish
MEMORY 1024MB 667MHz Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM [2x512]
HARD DRIVE 250GB (7200rpm) Serial ATA Hard Drive with 8MB DataBurst™ cache
GRAPHICS CARD Integrated Intel® Graphic Media Accelerator 3100
OPTICAL DRIVE 16x DVD +/- RW Drive
KEYBOARD Dell™ Entry Quietkey USB Keyboard - UK/Irish (QWERTY)
MOUSE Dell 2 Button USB Scroll Optical Mouse - Black

Accessories

SOUND SOFTWARE Integrated 7.1 Channel High Definition Audio
SPEAKERS No Speakers
FLOPPY/MEDIA DRIVES No Floppy Drive
MODEMS No Modem
MICROSOFT SOFTWARE Microsoft® Works 8.0 - English

Services & Software

HARDWARE SUPPORT 1 Year Base Warranty - Collect & Return
ACCIDENTAL DAMAGE SUPPORT No Accidental Damage Support
SECURITY SOFTWARE No Security/Anti-Virus Protection - English

Also included with your system

Dell System Media Kit Resource DVD - (Diagnostics & Drivers)
Shipping Documents English Documentation with UK/Irish Power Cord
Gedis Bundle Reference D115008
Order Information Inspiron Desktop Order Uk
Standard Warranty 1 Year Base Warranty - Collect & Return
Money Off - Shows in Strikethrough Money Off - 20 £ Inc Vat
Online Promotion Option for GEDIS Configs Dell Internet Order.
cosh
11/03/07		 Dell are making me really angry now.
cosh
11/03/07		 I did a test with the Inspiron 1420 notebook (on the US site) and was able to build two virtually identical systems.

One had Ubuntu 7.04, the other had Microsoft Windows Vista Home Basic and Microsoft Works 8.

The Windows one was exactly $50 more expensive. So nothing illegal there.
cosh
11/03/07		 I decided to battle with Dell's configurator again. I was able to build two hardware-identical Inspiron 530's, one with Ubuntu 7.04, and one with Microsoft Windows Vista Home Basic and Microsoft Works 8.

The Windows one was exactly $150 more expensive. Although the Windows one had FAR more options, some of them free, the options which were common to both systems were the same price.

If Dell are misleading me with the confusing complexity of the options, they're very good at it.
aikiwolfie
11/03/07		 There may very well not be anything illegal going on. But the way Dell are promoting their systems is confusing and to me at least appears to be deceptive. Microsoft could for example be giving Windows away for free to OEMs. Nothing illegal in that. It's their OS and their copyright. But wouldn't both the PCs listed above then cost the same? So perhaps it's Canonical support services that are costing us extra?

As I said above, I think Dell need to start explaining these discrepancies. The best step forward they could take is to place Ubuntu in the OS options menu along side Windows when ever possible. The on-line software can after all tell the consumer where there is a compatibility problem. More flexible methods of putting together customised systems might be the way to go here.
howlingmadhowie
11/03/07		 aikiwolfie: the windows license costs so and so many dollars on every computer dell sells. it doesn't matter if the computer has ubuntu on it or vista, dell still pays microsoft for the right to preinstall vista on it.
aikiwolfie
11/03/07		 Then why don't PCs with exactly the same hardware configuration cost the same?
jorge
11/03/07		 Well this problem has been discussed many time in many ideas and it is never clear nor a perfect comparison because you can't do an equal comparison, and I mean equal not close or kinda close, they even have started to offer different processors to each line to prevent this. The options must be equal, just because the Dell Linux guys can't make things work doesn't mean we haven't already done it and want to buy the component anyway and work it out on our own. The Dell Linux guys really don't try much if anything at all, they are supposedly working on this and that (yea, we have no idea what) and from the outcome so far I'd say they're just playing Halo3 on a computer in the back room.

The comparisons must be equal from a hardware point of view, equal as in every component, not just the Dell label on the outside of the box.
aikiwolfie
11/03/07		 Microsoft's licensing arrangements are about to get it in trouble in the UK. The government body that advises schools, colleges and universities has advised that schools shouldn't buy into license agreements that require a license for each and every single PC on the premises. Instead the license should cover only the PCs intended to be used with Windows.

If you look at the first two customized hardware specs I listed above jorge you'll see that they are in fact practically identical.
 
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