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70

Provide Virtualized XP with Ubuntu Laptops

70 points posted to Operating Systems, Sales Strategies by kwan 09/28/07

With the addition of KVM to the kernel (not to mention many other virtual machine solutions), Dell should offer Ubuntu with virtualized XP.

Dell will sell many more high end machines that have dual/quad processors and increased memory.

For myself and many others it solves our problems. We have a nice linux destktop that rivals Vista (and then some), and we can still run software under XP without the bloat/problems of Vista. This could provide a nice business solution too, were corporate customers can't leave Windows just yet, don't like what they are hearing about Vista, and want a longer term solution that works.

benjesuit
09/28/07		 Or, just buy a machine with Vista, wipe an install XP (provided that drivers are available) then get a Vista theme pack like the one cystalxp.com features.

And then there's WINE. Even Crossover Linux.
jmxz
09/28/07		 I think this is what Munich does but with windows 2000 instead.

They're 'Full steam ahead for Linux in Munich' but still have legacy apps that do just as well on 2000 as XP. And noone could even guess if they'd even run on Vista.

I suspect many companies are in the same boat; and if Dell could sell ubuntu with your choice of legacy windows license it'd be compelling for businesses that still have windows apps they can't port to Linux-or-Vista that easily.
davmcn
09/28/07		 You want Xp go buy it. Or order it with your pc purchase.
kwan
09/28/07		 It is an "option" that is proposed. Why not provide the option to users. I'd like to be able to run XP virtualized, and the cost should be less than Vista. I don't care if it is Windows 2000 offered, but give Linux users the option of being able to run Windows problems, and sorry, much as I wish it could, WINE doesn't cut it in all cases (but its great for many!)
davmcn
09/28/07		 lol, i understadn that you want Xp but,,just have you're pc do dual-boat.
kwan
09/28/07		 Why would I want to reboot every time, when I can just run XP software on a virtual machine? I'm moving to Linux to stop booting as often, after all ;)
davmcn
09/28/07		 i guess, still....
winoffice
09/29/07		 If you still need Windows then what makes you require Ubuntu? Also, with virtualized XP, whose computer would "host" that copy of XP?
davmcn
09/29/07		 yah winoffice is right...
aikiwolfie
09/29/07		 Given that Microsoft have made it very clear that they intend to stop supporting XP in the near future and will even stop issuing licences why do people keep asking Dell for Windows XP? It's not something Dell has any control over. Even if Dell could continue to sell Windows XP, Microsoft will eventually stop distributing XP security patches.

Now I would also agree that if you still have a need for Windows then you should be using Windows. I like Linux and I think Ubuntu is the best version I've seen to date. I also think Dell should treat it with the same respect it treats Windows Vista. However I just don't see any point in offering virtualisation as standard on a PC. Software developers may find it useful when doing cross-platform development. However most folk aren't software developers.

In any case I'd much rather cross-platform developers used something like Java.
kwan
09/29/07		 Okay - some of us - probably a lot of us - don't want to move to Vista, and want an alternative. I know I fit in that category.

The problem is that I have a lot of software that runs on XP. I'm pretty sure we all do. If you really want to go to Vista, help yourself, but I've seen it, seen the hardware requirements and compared it to Ubuntu which I installed on a trial basis and now have as a permanent edition to my XP laptop.

I want onto Ubuntu, and I want to be able to run my legacy XP software on Ubuntu. Frankly I'll do it myself if Dell doesn't, but I'd prefer a solution from Dell, rather than rolling my own. I'm going to need a new high power laptop to run it.

If you don't think this makes sense, let me point you to Mac and Parrallels. Seems to work for Apple.
davmcn
09/29/07		 Okay well i understand that...
jmxz
09/30/07		 @aikiwolfe: "Given that Microsoft have made it very clear that they intend to stop supporting XP in the near future and will even stop issuing licences why do people keep asking Dell for Windows XP?"

Organizations like Munich referenced earlier in the comments only want Windows so they can run the Windows applications they already have on their exiting Windows 2000 systems. They don't care if Vista's has the shiniest windows decorations, or if it's what Dell "recommends" - they just want their existing software to work.

Now in Munich's situation where they need some legacy Win2000 applications to run but do all new deployments on Linux - - surely you don't suggest I need an entire box for that --- which is where virtualization would fit the need nicely. And surely Vista's not the answer for them either.
aikiwolfie
09/30/07		 The problem is you guys are still ignoring the fact Microsoft control the licences and Dell are currently in no position to tell Microsoft what to do. Personally I don't want to move to Vista. My XP software runs just fine.
kwan
09/30/07		 Does the XP license that Dell has, say it can't be used in a virtualized environment? Do you think that if Dell (who were prime movers in extending the life of XP sales) can't tel MS they intend to sell XP on a virtualized basis? Why would Microsoft object (other than for monopolistic reasons) from the sale of an XP license, irrespective of the environment it is used in?

MS has already said that XP is being sold till June 2008, so there is plenty of time to sell this product, which helps Dell move high end machines.
aikiwolfie
09/30/07		 The monopolistic reasons are exactly why Microsoft would object. Not to mention that Microsoft wants to force everybody to move over to Vista and defiantly doesn't want to be giving anybody a reason to be running Linux for anything.

Now if you don't think Microsoft would cut their nose off to spite their face then consider the Xbox is yet to make a profit. Microsoft can afford to lose a few XP sales for the sake of forcing people on to Vista.
kwan
09/30/07		 "Not to mention that Microsoft wants to force everybody to move over to Vista"

Funny, but that last I heard they extended XP until June 2008. I guess maybe Del and other vendors have more clout with MS than you think, aikiwolfie.
jmxz
09/30/07		 @kwan:
Sadly, Microsoft has Dell by the [body-part of your choice] until Dell can find or help create competitive alternatives for the software Microsoft offers - just as Dell has done by adding AMD on the chip side.

If there's any doubt where the power lays in the Dell/Microsoft relation ship - just look at the profit margins of Dell and Microsoft -- and note that other computer vendors who do have some say about their software (Apple [BSD-based] and IBM [mostly linux software these days] make great examples) have much much higher profit margins than those that don't (Dell).

Short term, Dell's screwed. Dell's long term hope is helping create a viable alternative for their software. Maybe it's Canonical. Maybe it's Apple. Maybe it's their own. But somehow they'll have to do it.
kwan
10/01/07		 @jmxz

Dell can sell XP for virtualized systems. If not, a number of Attorneys General would line MS up in their sights, for restraint of trade. MS really doesn't need that now.

I agree with you that Dell's long term hope is to create a viable alternative, and one way to do that is to allow users, such as myself, the ability to run legacy XP software on a Ubuntu/Linux environment.

I'm actually quite surprised that anyone (particularly as many support a Ubuntu solution) votes against this. It's clearly good for Dell, it's clearly good for consumers and I believe meets a consumer need, and even MS benefits from sales of XP licenses.
aikiwolfie
10/02/07		 Dell can only sell XP so long as Microsoft are willing to issue Dell with new licences to do so. June 2008 isn't that far off. Less than a year. What do people do when June 2008 comes and goes? How stays of execution do you think Microsoft are going to give Windows XP. Windows 98 was saved from the gallows many times. But it eventually bit the bullet. If the argument is to support legacy software then what happens when you buy a new system after June 2008? Will your legacy software that relies on XP have magically gone away?
jmxz
10/02/07		 @aikiwolfie:

How can Dell consider working with a supplier that can't keep supplying them products as long as they're in demand. It's like if Intel told them "no more x86 - only Itanium now" Dell would tell intel "no - our customers want x86". Whomever at Dell talks to Microsoft's salesguy really ought to remind Microsoft who's the customer in this relationship. Or perhaps even that it's a customer/supplier relationship rather than a slave/master relationship.
 
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