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20850

Make Linux and no Operating system standard options on all future products

20850 points posted to Operating Systems by jervis961 08/17/07 **REVIEWED**

OK Dell you have committed to supplying Linux options in limited form. Since you have laid the groundwork already here is the next step. Every new product you release that needs an Operating system should have Linux and also no Operating System as an option in the configuration along side Windows. Since you have to write drivers and test compatability for Vista when making a new product just make it compatable with Linux at the same time. There will no longer be a need for a seperate sections for Linux or no Operating system since all of the products will have the option. this will help make your site easier to navigate for you customers. You can also create an ACCURATE help me choose section for the OS choices.





Check out what daniel_j has to say on the options we offer.





kenjennings
08/17/07		 You're just trying to send .chris over the edge, aren't you?
jervis961
08/17/07		 No, just trying to nail Dell down and make a commitment. Throwing .chris over the edge is just a bonus.
davmcn
08/17/07		 And No Windows??? What???
jervis961
08/17/07		 Along with windows, I will reword for teh sarcastic. :D
davmcn
08/17/07		 Thanks Cause Without Windows....I Will Not Be Making Purchases from Dell Anymore.
jervis961
08/17/07		 No I had mentioned that they test Vista during production and could do the same with Linux. I thougt it was clear but added windows into the wording so there would be no confusion.
jervis961
08/17/07		 I'm a Windows freak myself but think it is unfair the way Dell treats the Linux Community. I am planning on trying Ubuntu on my oldest notebook after I upgrade to a new one. We do a hand me down with computers in my house so it will get installed an an 1ghz celeron inspiron but I heard it will run alot faster. I'm looking foreward to trying it out, the more competition the harder MS will have to work and provide better prices and products to consumers.
jake_fehr
08/18/07		 Selling computers with no operating system installed would be very difficult for Dell to do without angering Microsoft. Many people buying machines with no OS installed would do so with the idea that they could obtain a copy of Windows illegally elsewhere. As it is, many people pirate newer versions of Windows when given the chance. That's why Microsoft started touting their "Genuine Windows Advantage." At least with Ubuntu or FreeDOS installed, Dell can argue that inexperienced users will be less likely to install an illegal copy of Windows.

I like the idea in theory, but I don't think it has a chance in hell of happening.
airblazer
08/20/07		 plus the fact the 90% of people ordering a pc off dell really don't have a clue about computers.
Can see a customer selecting the No OS option to save himself a few mins and then rings dell a few days later bitching that his pc doesn't work.
Fact of the matter is ppl don't care what OS they get as long as they can use it for all their needs..surf the web, play movies/movie etc and the kids can play a few games and that's where the prob lies..Linux can do the first 2 no bother but playing games? Bar messing with emulators 99% of games won't play on it. I don't blame MS. Anyone here would do the exact same thing if they owned the company. Regardless of what everyone thinks there is no such thing as ethics in business..
howlingmadhowie
08/26/07		 one could argue that many people have a valid windows license and an old computer. they could buy a new computer and use their valid windows license on it.
jackluo923
08/27/07		 Why buy a OS when you could borrow it from other dell users. We all know Windows is always genuine (even if its copied 10 times) when paired with Dell windows + dell machines.
twocows
09/12/07		 This won't happen. It would be cool if it did, but it won't.
undead999
09/12/07		 make sure buyers understand the support included (or excluded) with a no os option. Might also be worthwhile pointing what OS's dell offers drivers for, as XP MCE 2005 drivers dont always work with other versions of XP.
kloroformd
09/12/07		 I see no reason for this when you can just get an Ubuntu system and remove the OS.
jervis961
09/12/07		 I see no reason why you can't have no OS installed and install the one you choose. I also see no reason why Linux cannot be offered on all future systems.
pomtom
09/13/07		 We've got about 350 desktop users in our company. We've completely switched to Linux 2 years ago. Therefore, buying desktop computers with a pre-installed Windows OS is just a complete waste of money and time for us since the computers need to be reinstalled anyway.
kreuzritter33
09/15/07		 This is a great idea! I will supoort it.
fletcherthunder
09/17/07		 http://linux.slashdot.org/linux/07/09/17/153210.shtml< need to have everything installed *and* configured, ready to go out of the box, just like windows, not make users configure *everything* when they start it up, this would take very little more effort, and would save end users considerable pain....
jervis961
09/18/07		 This idea has been here over a month and on the front page for almost the whole time. Why no status tag???
jervis961
09/19/07		 Light reading material on Dell's Linux strategy, since they won't post anything

http://techiqmag.com/2007/09/17/dells-desktop-linux-strategy-slow-and-steady/
snikch13
09/21/07		 I voted for this one, but I don't agree with the "no operating system" option. I can appreciate, from a business standpoint, why it is in Dell's best interest to offer some sort of operating system. The last thing they need is a customer clicking "no operating system" for a perceived discount, and not fully understanding the details behind such a choice. Linux should be a standard option on all computers.
barawks
09/22/07		 I understand where the no OS option would be great but can definitely see where it could cause a problem with uneducated or technologically inexperienced purchasers. As far as Ubuntu being an option on all systems, that'd be fantastic. I've purchased nearly a dozen machines from Dell in the last 5 years and would've loved to have had this option.
howlingmadhowie
09/23/07		 well, looks like what we have been begging dell to do for the last 6 months is now to be forced on dell by the eu: eu report on unbundling windows

way to go eu! :)
the report basically repeats all the arguments we've been saying in this forum since it was started---the arguments dell has arrogantly ignored and the other windows fanbois have laughed at.

but the eu has not been bought by microsoft in the manner the american government has. maybe we will gradually see innovation and progress in hardware and software, when the microsoft monopoly is broken.

i for one would like to see new chips from intel without the whole legacy support of 20-bit and 32-bit modes. imagine the dramatic performance increase if the amd64 was turned into a truly risc design without this cisc compatibility layer stealing clock cycles! everything is possible, once the deadening effect of the monopoly has been broken.
jdelidc
09/24/07		 could we get some status update on this? it ain't that hard to put a blank hard drive in a computer
estero
09/25/07		 Just how does one boot a computer with absolutely NO OS?
howlingmadhowie
09/25/07		 estero: you install one. which is exactly what people who want linux have been doing for the last 15 years.

besides, if you already have a windows license, why should you pay for it again when you buy a new computer?
newbs
09/25/07		 You know what, I think this is really hard for them to do, since it means completely reworking the manufacturing lines. I'd imagine its

1. expensive
2. time consuming to implement.
3. all you people have to BUY it to make it worth their while. :)
jervis961
09/25/07		 There is no reworking the manufacturing line. The XPS has an option to opt out of trial software so that means the info on the disk is different. This is just another facet to that.
howlingmadhowie
09/26/07		 newbs: i cannot see dell having to retool case design in order to be able to copy a different image onto a hard disk.

dell is perfectly able to update these images with regularity when it comes to offering more trial software.
jervis961
09/26/07		 DELL_ADMIN, let me know if you are about to give this a status tag so I can change the title back first.
diytuner
09/26/07		 No kidding... It makes you wonder if they ever even look at this web site
winoffice
09/26/07		 jervis961: Sure, all systems, except XPS. After all, Dell designs XPS primarily for gaming (for the home user), and most games today will not run on Linux. Even if the software itself will install, it might not run properly without special drivers that will work only on Windows. Therefore, I think that Linux should be offered on XPS only after all the Linux drivers are made and found to work (there is still no message from Dell about this yet). Also, Dell designs XPS primarily for performance (for the business user), and most software used by businesses (like most desktop publishing and web site management software) will run only on Windows and maybe Macintosh, but not Linux as far as I know.
winoffice
09/26/07		 davmcn said: "Thanks Cause Without Windows....I Will Not Be Making Purchases from Dell Anymore. " And with that I agree.
davmcn
09/26/07		 yep,
winoffice
09/26/07		 jervis961, you said: "I'm a Windows freak myself but think it is unfair the way Dell treats the Linun Community." It should be Linux and not Linun, though!
jervis961
09/26/07		 Actually not all XPS sales are for Gamers as some buy for the looks. They could offer a compatable card with linux drivers as long as they explain the difference in the configurator. As for the business software there is Open Office that could be offered as well. I prefer Windows and Office myself but there should be options for everyone. Competition brings down prices and I have been more interested in Open Source since the start of this site. I've learned alot from the people here.

On a side note they found some security issues in Open Office. http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1009_22-6209919.html?tag=nl.e550
jervis961
09/26/07		 opps typo I'll fix it tks
howlingmadhowie
09/26/07		 i for one would love a fast mobile workstation with linux on it for mathematical simulations. but i suppose i'm a niche market.
jdelidc
09/27/07		 and still no status update
jervis961
09/27/07		 Nope, dell_admin1 has seen this though.
winoffice
09/28/07		 jervis961, it is true that OpenOffice.org is another option for business software alongside Microsoft Office. I prefer Microsoft Windows and Microsoft Office just like you. And I also think that OpenOffice.org should be offered (as an option alongside Microsoft Office, of course!). But we should not forget that there are no open-source alternatives for some business software (like desktop publishing and web site creation/management). OpenOffice.org, in fact, does not even claim to have either of these.

Also, you noted some security vulnerabilities in OpenOffice.org, as I see. Therefore, it is mistakenly claimed by open-source supporters that open-source software is 100% secure.
jervis961
09/28/07		 There are open source programs for web creation. seamonkey has an some tools I used in some of my ideas. Limited, yes but there are options out there. I am not an expert in open source so I'm sure someone else can chime in with some real alternatives. I would love to have web authoring tools to tinker with for personal use but I don't want to spend a bunch of money just to make my posts here look better.
winoffice
09/28/07		 Maybe they can design web pages, but probably cannot manage entire web sites that I know of. Microsoft FrontPage and Macromedia Dreamweaver can create not only single web pages, but create, manage and publish entire web sites. I have so far not heard of any open-source software that can do the latter.
jervis961
09/28/07		 I haven't heard of any either. How much does front office cost nowadays?
howlingmadhowie
09/29/07		 winoffice: that you haven't heard of any tells me more about where you look for information. sun, for example, makes open source software for doing a lot more than managing websites. for designing webpages and managing websites one could also mention quanta, nvu and KompoZer. if one just wants to make ones posts here look better, one could try learning basic html (it's not difficult).

as far as i know, no open-source supporter has claimed that open-source software is bug free. being open-source however, it does make it possible to fix bugs. if i recall correctly, microsoft issued a press release about 6 months ago, saying that microsoft office should not be used in a production environment because of unpatched vulnerabilities. they have yet to give the all-clear.

interestingly, less than 10% of internet pages are made using web authoring software. I myself hardcode every page i write by hand. it helps reduce bloat.
teron
09/29/07		 The bug Jervis linked to was found in OO.o 2.04. At the time of the article's writing, 2.3 had already been out for a week or so. The bug doesn't exist in 2.3, though I don't know if it exists in 2.1 or 2.2.
But it's been fixed, and at least Linux users are safe due to automatic system-wide updates.
jervis961
09/29/07		 thanks for the info howlingmadhowie and teron.

I know some basic HTML and used SeaMonkey but which opensource is best for web developement?
davmcn
10/01/07		 Yay, i bet jervis is happy Now....
jervis961
10/01/07		 Not really, since I asked them to warn me before they tagged it so I could change the title back. Now the status tag is gone again. Oh well.
davmcn
10/01/07		 Oh Ok...
That sucks....
davmcn
10/01/07		 Davmcn Status for this idea: CHANGED STATUS TO **UNDER REVIEW**
petzymathuram
10/02/07		 O.that sounds fine....;)
dell_admin10
10/02/07		 @jervis961 Thanks for editing the title.
jervis961
10/02/07		 no problem, thanks for returning the status tag. :)
petzymathuram
10/03/07		 Congrats JMO finally you have done it....Kudos to U....;)
jervis961
10/03/07		 thanks petzy
petzymathuram
10/03/07		 U R welcome....JMO...and how is your day?...;)
sin
10/03/07		 I don't know if the OP is editable, but FreeDOS would look a lot better than "No operating system".

And yes, we (the customers) want this and it's very effortless of Dell to provide it. They would have cheaper options for most/all their computers. There already are enough people who either already have a win license, or use linux.
dell_admin10
10/08/07		 Changed status to **UNDER REVIEW**.
rkl
10/10/07		 Not sure how "FreeDOS" (which no-one and mean *no-one* uses as their primary desktop OS - it was just a Dell ruse to get around MS'es ludicrous insistence that all desktops ship with an OS) is better than "No operating system"! I would *love* to see "No operating system" - just make sure that there's a lot of warnings around it (e.g. "You will need to obtain an OS separately for this machine and we cannot offer any OS or software support for the machine if you select this option"), which should make even the most clueless think twice about it. Oh, and it should be cheaper than bundling Windows of course (one wonders if Dell are scared to show "No operating system" because it immediately shows how much Dell charges for their volume OEM Windows - yes, folks, Windows isn't "free"!).

What I would like to see with the "No OS" option, though, is some sort of "Linux certified" scheme, whereby, say, the latest versions of Ubuntu/SuSE/Fedora are installed and each hardware model tested against each distro (automated testing suites would be the best way). If anything fails, either Dell should help solve the issue (e.g. dedicate an engineer to fix the issue upstream) or even change a component to a more Linux-compatible one. That way, I can buy a "No OS" machine and be pretty confident that most Linux distros I try will work near-flawlessly out of the box. They do all this for Windows and Ubuntu, so why not for a couple of other Linux distros too?
jdelidc
10/10/07		 sweet! status change!
davmcn
10/10/07		 Hey Jdelidc,
How are you?
yay!!!!
howlingmadhowie
10/10/07		 rkl: it's quite possible that dell pays microsoft the same amount for every computer they sell, if it has windows on it or not.
petzymathuram
10/11/07		 @howlingmadie-what do you mean by rkl?
jdelidc
10/11/07		 davmcn: i'm not back yet. still in new jersey right now. hopefully 2 more weeks. but that made my day to see the status update on this idea and even on my ratings idea
howlingmadhowie
10/12/07		 petzymathuram: my comment was primarily directed at rkl, who had written a comment above mine.
petzymathuram
10/12/07		 @ howling madie...was it there?...I think I dont remember it.....well kindly excuse me plzz...;)
dave-2
10/12/07		 A recent article headlined "Canonical chases deal to ship Ubuntu server OS" (http://open.itworld.com/4917/071009ubuntu/page_1.html) stated:

It's been hard to tell how popular the Ubuntu desktop has been for Dell, which started selling the OS in May on two desktop PCs and the Inspiron E1505n notebook. Asked how well those PCs have sold, Canonical referred the questions to Dell. A Dell spokeswoman said the figures are confidential.

With Dell's current pricing policies, it's not hard to see why they would want to keep Ubuntu sales figures confidential. Who in their right mind would buy an Ubuntu model when they could get a Windows model for $100-$200 less, wipe the hard drive, and install Ubuntu themselves. That's exactly what I did with a recently purchased Vostro 400.

IDG and Dell will have no idea how many people are using Ubuntu on Dell hardware until the most-requested idea on this site (http://www.ideastorm.com/article/show/74137/The_most_requested_feature) is ** IMPLEMENTED **.

originally posted under a different thread
ajxn
10/14/07		 About MS Windows no pre-installed I do like it.
At my work we always wipe out old installation and install our own.. We do have own legal MS Windows licenses, as we have a site license.
Personally I would like a box that don't spend so much time in BIOS when it boots. There is a Linux solution for that to. Have a look at LinuxBIOS and learn how to get through BIOS phase in 4 secs, 6 secs if you want a graphical system and terminals (X11).
http://linuxbios.org/index.php/Welcome_to_LinuxBIOS
saivann
10/16/07		 This idea is not just about Linux, but also Windows. Actually, it's hard to pick a computer on XP or Vista. Some comes with XP and somes come with Vista. A Dell vostro will come with XP if choosed from the right of the website but it will come with Vista if it's choosen in the middle of the website.. That's complicate.

Give choice to the final user! Linux / Windows XP / Windows Vista like you do with anything else. The operating system isn't like the CPU, it doesn't require a specific hardware to work on a computer.

It's clear to me that the ubuntu computers will never have success if the choices are limited like it's actually the case. It's not needed to put Ubuntu in frontpage, but same if the ubuntu option can be small during the order process, it should exist. and while Ubuntu clearly works great with almost all hardware, there should not be hard work to do on Linux systems with Dell computers.
kenjennings
10/18/07		 I recently did an openSuse 10.2 install on my new Precision M90. It went start to finish without any issues and all the components appear to be working fine. Dual boot with WinXP was setup properly. I haven't even had to think about looking at a command line. openSuse works so well it makes me wonder why Dell went with Ubuntu on lower end hardware for its "official" Linux support.
dave-2
10/18/07		 double post deleted
dave-2
10/18/07		 Does openSuse support setting display resolution? Ubuntu 7.04 does not allow users to set resolution from a GUI - it requires editing a config file and a reboot - how lame is that? Ubuntu 7.10 (released today) claims:

Dynamic screen configuration
Several drivers, including ones for ATI, nVidia, and Intel graphics chips now support the X Resize and Rotate Extension (xrandr). This enables dynamic monitor detection, and resizing and rotating of video output, for no-fuss support for projectors and external monitors.

Graphical configuration tool for X
You can now configure what driver you want to use for your graphic card, change the default resolution for all users or change your monitor's refresh rate without having to turn to the terminal. A new GUI has been added making it easy to adjust your video and monitor settings. This tool can also set up dual screen capabilities for cards that use the Xinerama mode.


I'll download it tonight and see.
kenjennings
10/18/07		 The suse install automatically sensed and configured the LCD 1920x1200 resolution.
Also, the administrator tool (yast) connects with Sax2 allowing a choice of display resolutions, and other graphics card options (dual displays.) It's been that way for years and many past versions of Suse.
mfread
10/22/07		 I can't support this idea strongly enough. The only legitimate objection I have seen is about users who don't know what they are doing selecting no os to save money. This can be resolved by selecting a sane default, in my experience those who do not understand computers will not change options they don't at least think they understand. This could even be reinforced with red print wording in parenthesis suggesting that selecting no operating system is recommended for advanced users only.
jdelidc
11/03/07		 agreed. otherwise there could be a bunch of angree people out there going "why can't i do anything?" "you mean i have to pay $200 more just to use my machine that i already paid $zzz for?"
jt007
11/17/07		 I agree that there should be an extra step that makes you agree to the fact that you are selecting no OS and what this means... I would like the option of no OS as I already own copies of XP and Vista and would rather transfer the S/W versus buying another copy
howlingmadhowie
11/17/07		 jt007: if you have OEM versions of microsoft software, it is a usual part of the license that the license is not transferable. Of course, the windows eula has to the best of my knowledge never been tested in court.
jt007
11/18/07		 I have XP and Vista versions (non OEM) from being part of a large corporation that we can get at very compelling pricing. Hate buying to ensure that I'm compliant and then being forced to buy another copy when I buy a system. Hence in the past of buying clone systems and building them myself.
mtb
11/21/07		 I'm personally sick of ordering PCs from Dell that I want to install Linux on without knowing in advance if they'll work properly or not. Most workf ine, but a recent Optiplex for example won't boot without special options and isn't compatible with the grub boot loader for some reason.
nicholas.cullen
11/23/07		 I'd like to point out that the FreeDOS option is in fact a disk included with your system to install if you want it, not already installed on your computer. This is as close as you can get to a No OS option. when you go to www.dell.com to buy a system configured with FreeDOS, the description is this -> FreeDOS™ included in the box, ready to install .
winoffice
11/23/07		 jervis961: "Make Linux and no Operating system standard options on all future produts"

"Standard" options? What difference does that have to just "options"?
jervis961
11/23/07		 Standard refers to something that is on every system. It means that every new product from Dell should have the option of Linux or no OS. Yeah I could have worded it better but it still has done pretty good.
dave-2
11/26/07		 @howlingmadhowie: "interestingly, less than 10% of internet pages are made using web authoring software. I myself hardcode every page i write by hand. it helps reduce bloat."

The alternative to web authoring software is not hand coded (which might be 0.1% of internet web pages); the vast majority would be dynamically generated using content management systems. You don't think cnn.com or Amazon.com or blogspot.com use web authoring software do you? Or hand-coded pages - somebody in Mexico City or Bangalore madly typing away every time you click "add to shopping cart"?

@winoffice: As far as open source web software goes, I have no idea what kind of market share Drupal has, including The Onion, but I'll claim it's 13% :-). After all, 89% of statistics are false.
winoffice
11/27/07		 jervis961: "I haven't heard of any either. How much does front office cost nowadays?"

You mean FrontPage, no? Well, FrontPage 2003 cost $199 before Office 2007 was released. Now you can obtain FrontPage 2003 from most ebay and amazon sellers for much less, though. On ebay, I often saw new copies of that product being sold for $99-$149.
winoffice
11/27/07		 jervis961: "Make Linux and no Operating system standard options"

By "standard" you mean making one of them the default OS choice?
winoffice
11/27/07		 @dave-2: Why did you record the market share for that product to be 13% and not something else like 12% or 14%?
jervis961
11/28/07		 no win office it means they should be an option on all computers. Sure it could be the default choice of no OS then work up in price but the problem is that most people want windows or could become confused thinking that windows is the default. Then there is the old Dell price game problem. Dell would love to use no OS as default as they could advertise lower prices and nickle and dime you even more with the upgrade to windows. I'm not trying to make Linux take over the world here winoffice just want people to have the options if they want to go that way. If someone has a boxed version of windows they can install they should be able to buy a computer with no OS and if they want Linux they should have that option as well.
xivulon
11/29/07		 See also: http://www.ideastorm.com/article/show/75302/MultiOS_selection_via_checkboxes
howlingmadhowie
11/30/07		 dave-2: i count dynamically generated pages as hand-coded :)
gone_wheelin
12/07/07		 I think it would be great to have the option of Linux or none included with the Microsoft flavors of OS's. I think it would also be nice to have that as an option for systems with a custom partition configuration. Pre-install Linux into either the primary or secondary partition.

This may have been mentioned already but there are just to many comments to read through.
hamadryad
12/12/07		 I would like to add "in all regions". Right now Linux models aren't even available in Canada. If I could get the model I want with Linux (preferably Ubuntu although any Linux is better than paying for an OS I'll never use) I'd buy it without hesitating.
aikiwolfie
12/12/07		 Merged Idea originally posted 12/11/07
Offer All New Desktops/Laptops With Ubuntu Or As Bare-Bones systems!

A note to Dell.

This is your POPULAR IDEAS TAB! On it you will find many ideas with many thousands of points in favor of having Linux, Ubuntu or No OS as a standard option with your PCs and notebooks.

This option has been introduced with two "very select" products only. One might have entertained the thought that Dell would take the introduction of the Latitude XT Tablet PC as an opportunity to start implementing your most popular ideas from IdeaStorm into Dells mainstream product lines? But no. Instead Dell continues to ignore it's consumers requests and rubs salt in the wounds by proposing the Latitude XT Tablet PC should cost $2,499. Which for me translates to roughly £1,220.

Even in the feedback to Lionel Menchaca, Digital Media Managers initial blog, people asked for LINUX!

Today Dell have shown me they really aren't listening. The Latitude XT Tablet PC is too expensive and doesn't offer me the OS of my choosing. I'll be buying another tablet from a competing company as Dell clearly aren't interested.
okroger104
12/12/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 12/11/07
Which company is offering linux or no OS on their tablets? I looked at a bunch after reading what you wrote thinking that maybe Dell is johnny-come-lately to the party. Hp has freedos as an option on their tablet. Lenovo's all windows. Same with Fujitsu and Asus. So who are you refering to?

I'm in the US btw. I know sometimes for different markets other choices and options can be available.
aikiwolfie
12/12/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 12/11/07
This is Dell IdeaStorm. I was referring to Dell.

The option of Ubuntu is available with one Dell laptop and one Dell Desktop. Both pretty crap systems I would never buy.
okroger104
12/12/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 12/11/07
I think you got me wrong. You said that you'd "be buying another tablet from a competing company." So I figured you knew where to buy one with the option of no OS or with Linux preinstalled since that is what you would like. I'd be interested in seeing something like that too. Turns out though, I couldn't find it offered from the usual suspects. Thought you might know of someone.

Yeah and I agree, the low end systems that Linux is offered on leaves much to be desired.

P.s. I wouldn't have suspected that this post was just a rant with a threatening ultimatum to Dell. I honestly thought you knew of some company that was selling a tab with linux. Kind of like the Eee Pc or something but as a tablet.
aikiwolfie
12/12/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 12/11/07

www.emperorlinux.com
okroger104
12/12/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 12/11/07
Nice! Thanks. A little on the expensive side though.
aikiwolfie
12/12/07		 Merged Comment originally posted 12/11/07
That's cool I just didn't get your previous post. Glad to be of service ;o)

As for expensive. I don't mind paying for quality kit if it's what I want.
aikiwolfie
12/13/07		 Tesco are now selling Linux PCs. They also sell them right along side Windows PCs.
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