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-110

Ram and VISTA

-110 points posted to Accessories (Keyboards, etc.), Operating Systems by rubin 05/02/07

Why does a computer that claims 512 RAM only have 446 ? This variance is far greater than industry standard according to my reasearch. Also why would it come with VISTA when this is not enough RAM for VISTA ?

tleavit
05/02/07		 Probably *shared* with onboard video
rubin
05/02/07		 I would rather get a working machine for a fair price!
captainsensible
05/02/07		 No problem with you RAM. Usually it's an ATI video card that is integrated and as such you are using system memory to supplement and/or fully provide the "hypermemory". You can download the ATI catalyst control center and change this. It's listed as the uma frame buffer.
dino
05/02/07		 Seams more like a question than an idea. Yes some system share your system RAM and use it for video RAM and this will throw the amount of RAM off a little depending on how much is being shared. Google.com is your friend for questions and life in general.
rubin
05/02/07		 You assume everyone understands this ! Its a basic machine for a basic purpose.
rubin
05/02/07		 Are you Dell employess? Dell sold something that does not work..thats the point
rubin
05/02/07		 Download ATI control, love to if the machine wood boot in the first place...
hjwasson
05/02/07		 rubin, In regards to your first question, you do have 512 MB of RAM, but your system is using an motherboard integrated graphics processor, such as Intel GMA950 or GMA955, that does not have it's own VRAM. Instead, it allocates a portion of your DRAM for video use. This causes problems if you are running certain applications that require a large amount of system RAM or video RAM.

In regards to your second question, Vista will run on a system with 512 MB of RAM (or 446 MB) - just slowly, and you will be unable to enable the Aero Glass eye-candy (which Dell kindly tells you requires a minimum of 1 GB of RAM when you go to purchase your new system). The sad fact of it is that you as the consumer must consider carefully all of your choices when you put together your order. Not all of the configuration possibilities will give you optimum results. Saving money can have very real consequences to system performance.

I for one would always avoid motherboard integrated video. Even a budget video card with it's own VRAM is far better. Be aware of budget video cards that state they have HyperMemory or TurboCache. These systems have a small amount of VRAM...and go right back to stealing system memory to make up for the rest that they need to run a given application.

So, to get that full 512 MB back on a desktop system, you will have to purchase a video card (or more RAM). If you got a notebook, you're most likely out of luck when it comes to upgrading the video - your only choice is to add additional RAM.
hjwasson
05/02/07		 Rubin, what you are saying doesn't make sense. If Dell sold you a Vista machine, and it doesn't work right out of the box, contact Customer Support.
rubin
05/02/07		 This system was put together by DELL, not myself so it is not unreasonable to expect something faster than a commodore 64 in 2007. I had no part in configuring anything nor would I claim to know what I was doing. I needed a simple machine for Internet access on the road, no video games, movies or anything else. If I was watching movies or playing games online I would have no expectations from this machine. Running spread sheets and checking email is another story..I do expect a 1 week old machine configured by the seller to be capapble of doing this.
rubin
05/02/07		 Contact support is not interest, tech support acknowledged a problem. Customer support wants to sell RAM or charge 15 % and shipping for a return, either way its bait and switch upselling.
dino
05/02/07		 Windows VIsta does not require 512MB to operate. You can install it and use it with 256MB of RAM. The RECOMENDED requirement is 512MB but not REQUIRED. So your system is working as designed. The video card is sharing your system RAM.

Of course I would not RECOMEND running a Vista with anything less that 1GB of RAM, but that is my preference and not what is required for the operating system to operate. For speed and multi-tasking the more RAM the better. Also to get some of the pretty graphics Vista requires a specific amount of RAM.
hjwasson
05/02/07		 rubin, First you say that the machine doesn't boot. Now you say that it runs slow. If the machine is working, but runs slow - just add the additional RAM! You don't have to purchase it from Dell. You can get it online if you're not in a hurry. Try pricewatch.com, newegg.com, etc. If you are in a hurry, pop into a local computer store. If it's a small shop, you might even sweet talk them into installing the RAM for you for no additional charge. Otherwise just look up the customer support base article on how to add RAM for your machine and do it yourself. It takes 5 minutes.
rubin
05/02/07		 Taking advantage of limited knowledge consumers, selling minimum spec systems is not acceptable. Just because the machine turns on in 30 mins does not make the minimum requirement correct. Who ever set this minimum is just taking advantage of people. VISTA does not run well or nearly at all with the minimum specs. Had this been pointed out I would have no problem buying something better.
captainsensible
05/02/07		 Without Aero, D600, 1GB Ati 9000 32mb video card runs Vista Ultimate perfectly. And it's good enough for Counter-Strike!
rubin
05/02/07		 Adding Ram myself voids DELLS warantee on a 2 day old machine according to them. My point is sell something that works.
dino
05/02/07		 [Posted by: rubin Taking advantage of limited knowledge consumers, selling minimum spec systems is not acceptable. Just because the machine turns on in 30 mins does not make the minimum requirement correct. Who ever set this minimum is just taking advantage of people. VISTA does not run well or nearly at all with the minimum specs. Had this been pointed out I would have no problem buying something better. ]

Well thats life. If you buy a 50cc motorcyle and expect it to perform like a decent motorcycle, well it wont. Yes a 50CC motorcycle can operate on the road but you will not be able to keep up with traffic. Every OS there is a list of MINIMUM RECOMMENDED requirements for an Operating System lsited by the vendor, in this case that would be Microsoft. Most PC manuufactures will sell a range of computer from low end to high end and all in between. This is nothing new and if you you do not research or have help with a big purchase then you may not get what you expected. The good new is there is always a method to return the item stating it wasnt what you expected. Ask a sales person what you need to order to make it faster, I am positive they would love to sell you more hardware to meet YOUR needs. Also don't expect YOUR needs to meet 100% of OTHER people needs. Some people would love to buy a Vista system with only 512MB of RAM because they may already have memory and would like to save a buck.
rubin
05/02/07		 dino, only a DELL rep would believe such a load. IF a 50 cc motorcycle can't get my 5 year old around the yard there IS a problem with it. Microsoft lists 512 as minimum this DELL is down to 446 with whatever its sold with so why configure it this way? SELL people things that work. Adding my own RAM voids warantee with my luck and this machine I will need it.
watts
05/02/07		 rubin
3:46pm This system was put together by DELL, not myself so it is not unreasonable to expect something faster than a commodore 64 in 2007. I had no part in configuring anything nor would I claim to know what I was doing. I needed a simple machine for Internet access on the road, no video games, movies or anything else. If I was watching movies or playing games online I would have no expectations from this machine. Running spread sheets and checking email is another story..I do expect a 1 week old machine configured by the seller to be capapble of doing this.

rubin, you claim you had no part in configuring your system. How is that possible? Every system on Dell's website forces you to go through each component before placing it a shopping cart, and there are recommendations on each screen. If you're not sure what you're doing when making a purchase as large as this (I'm guessing at least $500 for a laptop), why not ask for some advice from a friend or family member or even a Dell Sales rep.
hjwasson
05/02/07		 Adding RAM doesn't void the warranty! For crying out loud, Dell even provides instructions on how to do it. Face it, rubin, you're not going to get much sympathy from most of us here. I am however, willing to help you out. Post your Service Tag number of your machine, or tell me what model it is, and I will post back the detailed instructions (from Dell) on how to upgrade your RAM.
rubin
05/02/07		 Pre configured system from a flyer. I have other Dells like this and they are fine so I expected the same. DELL knows that 512 is not enough for VISTA see MORE RAM postings for proof. So its very possible. You probably have one of these flyers in your mailbox today with claims of great performance in a big star on it. Lucky I still have it, Not everyone knows anything about VISTA or expects problems.
rubin
05/02/07		 DELL customer service told me this morning that unless I sent it back for them to do it would void warantee. Im going to add it anyway, the restocking charge costs me the same. So you have access to service tag numbers ? Not a DELL employee though ? COOL
watts
05/02/07		 even the "preconfigured" systems are able to be upgraded at the point of purchase. Upgrades are not free, but they are available.
tleavit
05/02/07		 Rubin, box your Dell back up and ship it back. Go buy a Gameboy.
hjwasson
05/02/07		 We all have access to Service Tag numbers - they're stamped on your Dell PC or notebook. Very handy when you want to look up support, drivers or accessories for your machine. Try it out sometime:
 http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/DellPartsFamily.aspx?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs
watts
05/02/07		 So, the "idea" from this post is... Dell needs should be more clear about setting expections on low end configurations.

Is that fair to say?
hjwasson
05/02/07		 ROFL, tleavit! See, rubin? I told you that you wouldn't get much sympathy from us!

watts, thank you for being the voice of kindness and moderation. Yes, I agree with you that's the fair message to take from this thread.
rubin
05/02/07		 Ok, so point is ...it is advertised as a home system for internet surfing ..as is..not with upgrades. It is not even capable of this. False advertising is what it is. Its an advertised expectation ..not one I created. So why should I be stuck paying 15% plus shipping to return something that was falsely advertised. Attacking customers for expecting what is advertised is not good business, neither is turning a bad system , created by DELL, the "gameboy" customers fault. DELL has a reasonable duty to sell systems capable of doing what they claim. This is a configuration that DELL configures and recommends on their own site as an "everyday productivity" system. It is not. Upgrades are available but it is advertised to perform capably as is. The market changes so fast that I dont mind buying new every year, but I expect what I buy to work and be somewhat current, not from the 90's. The funny thing is , I am a corporate client. I have bought a new dell every couple of months as our sales force needs. Maybe I am just a " gameboy" client but I add up to lots of dollars.
dino
05/02/07		 So now your saying it CANNOT surf the internet? Do you have an internet connection? I would suggest contacting your internet service provider instead of saying it's false advertising because you are grasping for things to complain about.

If something is advertised for example to surf the internet and it can but it is slow that is in no way false advertising.

It's funny that this post started as why is the amount of memory different that 512 and turned into, since that factual answer about video card sharing RAM did not agree with my arguement I will keep changing what is actually wrong with the system (which is probably nothing).

Also since your post was not an idea but a question (not what this site is designed for) you may want to post a new article titled, "I suggest Dell create a dummies program where they will call my mom to hold my hand while I struggle to purchase a computer which I can purchase for under $1000 and expect it to solve all of lifes problems, since I cannot cope with not understanding why I fall over when I jump up and hold both my feet."

The above was inteded as humor not an insult (<<< false advertising).
hjwasson
05/02/07		 rubin, It's clear that you feel very strongly that you have been wronged by Dell. It's also very clear that many of us:

1. Don't understand exactly what your complaint is, other than you got a system that has less RAM than you say it needs, and that you blame Dell for offering such a configured system.
2. Don't agree with you that it's Dell's fault.

I for one am honestly trying to understand why your system is running at sub-par, because the tantalizing bits of information you give us don't seem to add up, and you reject most of advice offered - and accuse us of being Dell employees or patsies. If your system can't even run a web browser under Vista with 512 MB of RAM (or 446 MB of unallocated RAM), then there is something seriously wrong with it. Web browsers are hardly resource intensive applications! Perhaps you have Aero Glass visual features enabled, despite your less then recommended specifications? It's hard to know if you have such a system - because you haven't really shared with us any of your system's specifications, other than how much DRAM you have, and that some of it is being reserved. If you have Aero Glass turned on - turn it off! It's just eye-candy for the most part, and is not critical to the operation of the OS. If that's the problem, you will be left with a standard Windows look and feel, and performance should increase notably.

If you have a desktop system, then you should be able to later upgrade your video card (& DRAM) to fully enable all the Vista bells & whistles. If you have purchased a notebook, your options are severely limited. You can not so easily upgrade your video (Aero Glass minimum specifications are a DX9 capable video card with 128 MB of VRAM). If Aero Glass is important to you, and you purchased an economy notebook - you should return it and get something with a little more horsepower. If your system truly meets Microsoft's published minimums for the features you have enabled - then it sounds like you do have a problem with your system, and Dell Support should be able to help you troubleshoot it (and do a warranty repair if need be). I don't know how to put it any more simply than that.

If you can't live with any of those answers, then I can only say that you will not get any satisfactory responses from most of the people who will post a comment here - and we should simply agree to disagree with one another respectfully.
captainsensible
05/03/07		 IDEA... there should be a button to LOCK a topic to stop it from going on and on. This should really be addressed in the Dell Community Forum instead. Maybe low-end systems should just come with Ubuntu. :) Save people from suffering the Vista slowness (which again, isn't slow at all if you disable all those silly visual effects; my crappy old D600 boots in under 45 seconds.. and even faster with ReadyBoost! And a gig of RAM makes a BIG difference. It also boots Ubuntu beautifully and automagically picked up my 1490 wireless card...no complaints!
rubin
05/03/07		 Dino seems to miss the point..it takes 10 minutes to boot out of the box. So surf the internet..no , log on or configure for the internet ...no. If you think its me ..YOU buy it, put your money were your DELL employee number is. I am not NOW saying it CANNOT surf the internet. I have been saying all along that it does not even boot up properly and DELL does not want to do anything about it unless I spend more money. As for "lifes problems" and my "mom", you sound like the kind of guy who gets mouthy behind a computer key board.
dino
05/03/07		 If you system did not boot out of the box then send it back. If it did boot out of the box and now you are having trouble booting into the operating system then there is a software problem. Software problems can and do occur is any operating system. These problems can be flukes or can be user caused. I really doubt they would be user caused since you show so much intelligence in your detailed post about your problems so far (<<< sarcasm detected). Dell can help you reload the operating system. When I was just learning computers Dell has helped me in the past reload my operating system over the phone. If it is within 30 days then you could still send it back.

Also when you said you were saying all along that it does not boot. I only found one comment, "Download ATI control, love to if the machine wood boot in the first place... ". Sorry if I missed that but I was still commenting on the amount of RAM scenerio at the time. So now that we have some details, what exactly happens after 10 minutes of booting?
peyre
05/03/07		 rubin, that's a bit rich, saying someone else here sounds like he gets mouthy behind a keyboard. Will you please STOP accusing the others here of being Dell employees?

You may have a valid complaint here, but we need more information to get a handle on the scope of your issue. If you can provide the info hjwasson asked for in his last comment, that would help.
premcv
05/03/07		 wow!
tleavit
05/04/07		 Rubin: REad up on "Prefetch" in Vista. Go buy a nice 4 gig USB thumb drive and plug it in, set up a prefetch Cache on it and Vista performance will come alive (act much like XP)
 
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