5 minute "battery backup" on notebooks to allow fast main battery switching

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5 minute "battery backup" on notebooks to allow fast main battery switching

510 points posted to Laptop Power by hjwasson 04/23/07

I would like to see Dell notebook computers incorporate a small internal battery that would allow users to quickly swap out their depleted primary battery with a fresh one - without having to power off or hibernate the notebook first. Hibernation sometimes fails on resume (although far less often than Standby), and shutdown/reboot takes too long when you're in the middle of an important meeting. I've been told that Apple MacBooks allow you to swap out batteries without shutting down first.

Another alternative would be to have hot-swappable module device bays that would allow placing a secondary battery in the bay (in place of the optical drive). This is done on the IBM/Lenovo ThinkPad line of notebooks. If the notebook could run off the secondary battery while the primary battery was being swapped, that would be fine, too.

jervis961 04/23/07	How about an external battery dock? It would connect using the laptop's power cord section that usually goes into the "power brick" and would have a port that would connect to the rest of the power cord on the other side. This way if you need extra battery power you don't have to swap out, just plug into the spare battery housed in the dock. When you are somewhere you can use a wall outlet you could then also charge both batteries at the same time.
premcv 04/23/07	That's a good idea, jervis, an external battery dock. Pretty nifty it would be! Just a thought, are there any other OEMs that have such a design? Can't say I've seen one. But this a good idea.
jervis961 04/23/07	I almost posted it as an idea after reading hjwasson's idea. I didn't want to take away from this idea though so I just commented. That is when I came up with my new Idea. for the site and how we are doing this. http://www.ideastorm.com/article/show/66316/Maybe_we_should_post_our_needs_an...
jmxz 04/23/07	The small internal battery was also recommended in the comments of an IdeaStorm to move the main battery outside the computer (perhaps to the powerbrick). http://ideastorm.com/article/show/65237/Use_EXTERNAL_Batteries_for_Laptops< like that even better - if all the laptop has is the 5-minute internal batter it'll be lighter/ smaller / etc for moving, say, from one office to another. While if the battery's in the powerbrick it can stay in the laptop bag and be bigger/heavier/longer-lasting without being annoying. The combination of the two ideas - a small internal battery and a large external one - seems perfect to me. (PS: the second idea of a battery in the bay in place of the optical drive already exists on many Dell notebooks)
jervis961 04/23/07	Oh yeah I forgot about that one jmxz. I'm not on carrying the battery seperate. The optional external battery dock may be an option for people to have it both ways. Dell could supply a cover for the notebook battery slot and you could you the battery dock for power. I would keep my laptop battery and use the dock for a secondary and for charging both batteries at once. Others might like things as they are and just use the normal battery in the notebook option.
hjwasson 04/23/07	Thank you for the excellent discussion, everyone! There are already available external batteries that can be plugged in line between a power adapter and a notebook: http://www.laptop-battery.org/universal-battery.htm These things very definitely have their place, and I'm all for them - however there's pros & cons to using them: Pro: The external battery works in conjuction with your main battery to extend run times. Run time increase can be significant, depending on the exernal solution you purchase The external battery is not brand-specific, so if you buy a different notebook, or wish to power another device, you use a different plug. Con: They do not connect to the notebook computer, and so tend to hamper mobility. They tend to be bulky, and take up more space in your bag. They tend to have their own power adapter, so you may end up carrying more adapters rather than less. While I could purchase and use an external battery to allow me to swap the main battery without shutting down, my intention with this post is to suggest a fast method of battery switching that doesn't trouble the user to shut down or hibernate or use such an external solution. That way you could use your sleek notebook without a lot of attachments, and then swap out for a spare battery in your bag when the moment presents itself (or when you absolutely need to,) without muttering "Come on, come on, come on!" while machine shuts down, you swap batteries, and then power it back up again. You could always use the notebook's power adapter while swapping out batteries - but then you need to find a wall outlet, dig the adapter out of your bag, unwind it, etc...all too much work when you're in a flaming hurry. Dell is very happy to sell extra notebook computer batteries to you - but you have to hibernate/shutdown your notebook in order to swap. They also don't sell a multiple battery charger (except Enterprise solutions for their Latitudes) to allow you to charge up all your depleted batteries while still using your notebook. Another pet peeve! ;-)
premcv 04/23/07	Good views there, hjwasson.
jervis961 04/23/07	I see your point, but my suggestion was more of dell making a dock that your extra battery goes into and supplies power via the ac port in the back of your laptop. The unit would only be slightly larger than you extra battery. Basically your current cord from dell comes in 2 peices: a cord from the laptop that connects to the power brick section and then the part that goes into the wall outlet. My battery dock could be connected by using your current power cord peices. Plug it into the computer to extend your battery time, plug it into the wall to recharge a battery or plug in both sides and both your laptop battery and the one in the dock charge using the same cord and you can still use your computer at the same time. If you think the cord is too long they could include a shorter version to go from the battery dock to the computer or make it a pull out cord (like vacuume cleaners have). I think adding an additional battery to the computer itself means that everyone has to pay for the option, even if they don't want it. My way its an accessory that isn't much bigger than the extra battery you are already carrying and gives you more flexability as to how you use it. I think my explination may be confusing just let me know and I will find a way to draw a diagram or something.
premcv 04/23/07	I've quite understood what your explanation was about, jervis. Though, a diagram would definitely be worthwhile. Picture says a thousand words.
jervis961 04/23/07	I'm not much of an artist though. Stick people are my specialty.
premcv 04/23/07	Stick people! :D
hjwasson 04/23/07	Sorry jervis! I misunderstood where you were going with your comments! I completely agree with you about the ability to charge the battery off of the power adapter, while you are using your notebook for other things! Dell does have these solutions for the Enterprise business Latitude line of notebooks, but not for their Inspiron lines: http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=bsd&cs=04&s... This post is a request for a multiple battery charger for the Inspiron line: http://www.ideastorm.com/article/show/66117/Small_External_Battery_Charger You may wish to vote for that, as I have! Your battery dock idea is also excellent, in that it would allow you to charge up your notebook as well as the battery in the dock.
jervis961 04/23/07	Yup, already voted on that one. Thanks for the link, sometimes things are hard to find . Wow 16 battery charger, that thing is huge. I like my idea better, and yours by the way.
hjwasson 04/23/07	IBM/Lenovo has a multiple battery charger for their ThinkPads: http://www5.pc.ibm.com/us/uscat.nsf/$ This web page doesn't like dollar signs in the url - copy & past the whole line into your web browser It will charge up to two batteries (one at a time, but you can have them both attached). It uses the power adapter from your laptop, so you couldn't use the same adapter to also charge your laptop at the same time. That's where your design concept is an improvement. I'm hoping for a reasonably priced Dell version for us Inspiron users - but it would need different battery connectors, since I've seen at least 3 Inspiron battery fittings.
premcv 04/24/07	OH, I didn't know about the Lenovo. Good technology.
thejedimaster 04/26/07	GREAT IDEA! BROTHERS,CAN I GET AN AMEN!?
reg 04/28/07	Agreed - Good Idea - Good for people who can't read their own battery power indicator on the task bar. It is so easy to Hibernate your machine, swap battery, & awake. Easy to do, always works for me... Or just find a wall plug, and make Notebooks with no battery - most people work inside buildings, batteries are a complete waste of money and harmful to the environment.
hjwasson 04/28/07	reg, if you would read the post in detail, you would understand the whole point is to avoid having to Hibernate or find a wall plug! Yes we can do that now, but it's a drag - especially if we're in the middle of a conference or an important meeting. If you're a travelling sales rep, and your battery begins to fail, every moment of delay makes you look like an idiot when you are trying to look your best. Which would you prefer in such a situation - taking 10 seconds to swap out that battery with a spare in your case, or two minutes to hibernate, swap, and boot back up again? What happens if you hit one of those rare times (less than 5%) when hibernation fails? Now you have to reboot, and you've lost everything you've had open, and have to start again. If I were a sales rep, my face would be burning with embarasment....
reg 04/29/07	Agreed - Delays are bad. I have never had Windows freeze or crash on me ever - as long as the power was off. ;~) After you hit the ON button, well - anything goes with windows...
hjwasson 04/29/07	"I have never had Windows freeze or crash on me ever - as long as the power was off. ;~)" - LOL! Yes, I agree that the OS is highly stable in that power state! "After you hit the ON button, well - anything goes with windows..." - Ain't that the truth! I don't know why Windows (any flavor) is less stable than UNIX based operating systems (OS X & the many, many flavors of Linux - not to say that all of them are super-stable). Granted, the server versions of Windows are more stable - but their uptime is still counted in (hundreds) of days, where Unix based systems can be counted in years.

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