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640

Disable the spyware pre-built into Vista - or warn customers about it before the purchase

640 points posted to Operating Systems, Software by jmxz 03/21/07

One of your software vendors (Microsoft) seems to have a habit of building spyware into the software they get you to pre-install.

There are many examples, but I'll give 3 specific examples here to let you know

For one example, the Windows Media Player
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,3995,00.asp
"February 21 Associated Press report that alleged the existence of DVD-tracking spyware hidden deep within Windows Media Player for Windows XP (aka Windows Media Player 8, or simply MPXP). .. It's bad enough that the very existence of a DVD cache might tempt nosy roommates, private investigators, and overzealous government agents. But, the article asserts, privacy experts fear that the ID-based tracking mechanism could even be exploited by media conglomerates"
I don't really want Microsoft and my ISP knowing my preferences in home movies; and I assume neither do many other Dell customers.

For another example, Windows Activtation's Hardware checks. I don't want Microsoft checking on what kinds of hard drives I put in my system - for example, if they don't like one particular hardware vendor in the future, I don't want them making my machine flaky on purpose.

For a third, Vista has spyware that scans your software as well looking for software they don't like:
http://www.itbusinessedge.com/item/?ci=20916
http://www.itwire.com.au/content/view/6149/983/
"Vista 'Spyware': The Best Thing to Happen to Linux" "Microsoft's intention to crack down on software piracy by putting what amounts to spyware on users' computers. Now I'm thinking twice about whether I really need or want this new operating system."

.

Remember, it's us your customers buying these machines - not Microsoft.

And I promise you your customers would prefer getting their machines spyware-free regardless of how well-intentioned it was.

And as much as your home customers don't like it; corporate IT security should be even more panicked that your servers out of the box are off sending packets around the internet at one of their competitor's (many of your customers are competitors of the company in question) requests.

If you can't (for technical reasons) disable these spyware features - please make sure a pretty visible "spyware warning" is placed right on the infected OS's right on the "select your OS" part of your web page; since I'm pretty sure your customers would at least like to be warned that you're helping companies spy on your customers.

benjesuit
03/21/07		 Paranoia run wild. Neverthess I agree about the potential for privacy infringement. But there's nothing DELL can do about it except to offer WIN XP as long as MS still sells OEM copies to DELL. Once that dries up, you've got Linux or Vista.

LOL, Label the computers as spyware infected. LOL. Cute.

Hey, you know you its rumored that your digital cable box sends back info to your cable operator about what shows you watch.

Your ISP tracks your web browsing. Google tracks your searches. Telcos track your calls.

Privacy, like security, is merely a state of mind.
jmxz
03/21/07		 Nothing Dell can do about it? Of course they can.

Some options:
1. They're probably the biggest distributor of Vista in the world. Surely they can ask Microsoft for a build without these "features".
2. They can configure the firewall to, by default, block those packets. After all, firewalls are designed to block unwanted communication; and if their firewall vendor can't block these magical packets they need a better vendor.
3. They can ask what their customers that use Windows in secure environments not connected to the network do.

And yes, the ISP tracks stuff (though some people use TOR http://tor.eff.org/ to prevent that; and it would be interesting if Dell offered an option to have TOR preconfigured). And yeah, even my OS vendor tracks everything I install on my computers ( http://popcon.debian.org/ ) - but that's because I opted in to this feature.

The point where this spyware becomes an offensive privacy/security threat is when the user has no reasonable expectation that they're being spied on.

And if you asked most people if Microsoft knew when they were playing a porn DVD on a Dell, I'd suspect they'd be somewhere between surprised and outraged. That makes it a problem.
reg
03/21/07		 No!

For the customers Own Protection, Please Install the Sony Root Kit DRM Trojan for us.

We can all rest easy knowning that Sony and Microsoft have their fingers in our files,
watching over us, protecting us from people who would want to steal music!

Thank you Dell!
benjesuit
03/21/07		 1. Not going to happen.

2. Extra step Dell's not going to take. However, a pamplet supplied with each unit on how to do it yourself would be nice.

3. And Dell would do that why? Microsoft would view that as circumvention of intellectual property rights.

On the otherhand, REG had a point. But the point of Sony's rootkit DRM was not only to protect intellectual property rights, but they took it a step further and interfered with fair-use rights.

Sure, fair use is being redefined year after year. But a company involving itself in intellectual property right circumvention is bad business all around.

A warning, or more politely, an informational pamplet should be included with each copy of Vista letting consumers know "the deal." And let the consumer base take it up with M$.

I'm not worried about it, because like you, I know how to get around these things to an acceptable point. But I'd like to see public awareness of the issue. Dell could help out without jeopardizing their business.
reg
03/21/07		 Click Here to Let Dell Know You Don't want Microsoft Spying on you!
stevied
03/21/07		 The black Helicopters are quietly circling.

These paranoid postings are getting even more humorous.
guardianxps
03/21/07		 Forget the Helicopters, there are little red laser dots all over the target.
jmxz
03/21/07		 stevied - 90+% of spyware is harmless; and no, my DVD selection isn't really interesting enough that Microsoft would care (at least not until they launch their own netflix competitor). But their activation spyware does indeed produce a lot of false positives shutting down users inappropriately depending on the components they upgrade - that's not paranoia, just history.

And even if Microsoft itself somehow gains an ethical streak, what's to stop rogue employees inside mishandling this data their spyware collects (like you occasionally see large phone companies get in trouble that way).

Best for Dell's customers would be if Dell ensured that the spyware was simply not there in the first place.
steveoc
03/21/07		 I would like to see Microsoft actually offer more spyware

http://www.dellideastorm.com/article/show/63774/Install_MORE_Advertising_Wares< so, even though my opinion is diametrically opposed to that of Reg's idea - Im going to vote for this idea anyway !!

1) Because I like and strongly agree with all of Reg's posts - even the ones I disagree with.
2) Because Im nice guy
and 3) Because its not like Dell is listening, or that they plan on implementing any of these ideas, no matter how popular.
jmxz
03/22/07		 Oh, and even if you fully trust microsoft with the data their spyware collects; they're not that good at security themselves and less trustworthy (if they exist) hackers could access it pretty easily. For example, note yesterday's news that the XBox Live security's been hacked http://blogs.zdnet.com/security/?p=131
"... Xbox Live users complaining about hijacked accounts, which typically link gamer tags to Windows Live ID (formerly .NET Passport)...I just got off the phone with a Microsoft Tech for Xbox live that has confirmed this to with me and they have stated that accounts are being stolen and that "Hackers have control of Xbox live and there is nothing we can do about it."

That's not the kind of company I want having spyware on my machine.
reg
03/22/07		 Could you imagine what would happen if a virus
went out INVALIDATING everybody's Windows Vista install ?

That would be the worst virus of all, turning all of Windows Vista GWA DRM technology against itself.

Then you couldn't even run your Antivirus software, because suddenly you are using a pirated illegal copy of Vista (or so it seems).

Ouch!

THINK ABOUT IT.
mlupino
07/25/07		 I personally feel its a double edged sword with the issues you presented. I'd like to comment on these, and please excuse my comments are a bit longer but i'd like to make a few points.

1) For Microsoft's hardware checks, its important that they ensure you have a proper copy of the operating system. People do spend time making this software and we live in a capitalist society where you need to make a living (make money to live). If people couldn't make money to live then how can we expect to get a good product. There are exceptions such as with Firefox but there is only so much talent to go around and when i talk about linux to linux development people they ask about how much time do you want us to devote to a project. It is always difficult finding talent so why not pay for the good stuff. The average user is not as smart as the average tech geek and may recieve a copy of windows far more dangerous then something off the shelve so why not save that user the headache and deliver a product with the service and speed of Apple or with a company that's on the top of the list.

2. I am completely for DRM-Less programs however programs priacy still needs to be reduced. Microsoft has done alot for large companies and small one's with their new products to ensure that programs stay in compliance. As an admin, having a compliance base is better than not because who knows of the viruses, spyware and potential visitors I can see hacking into what should be secure systems. For the large companies they can setup servers (and yes, they already have the equipment to do it today) to manage the licenses and registerations for things like Office 2007 etc. Sounds like Microsoft listened and no i can see how many Office computers I have rather than trying to guess and continue to spend money on licenses because I'm growing but I'm growing alittle bit slower than what i'm spending the money on.
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