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9380

Don't make us buy Vista

9380 points posted to Operating Systems by icantseeyou 02/21/07 **IMPLEMENTED**

From all of the press I have read it is plain that Vista is a big bomb. To buy the cheapest version I hear it isn't even as good as XP SP2. At the same time you need at least 4 Gig to run it. Offer other options... I don't care if it's Linux, XP, or a rat running on a wheel. Don't make us buy Vista.

You can read more about this the OS options Dell offers here.

dsgreen30 02/21/07	I'm not a big Windows booster....but everything you just said is completely wrong. You need to read up on Vista a bit more. XP is great, and stay with it if you want, but Vista is fantasic.
icantseeyou 02/22/07	I have a Dell WorkStation, Dual Pentium from 5 years ago that has 1 Meg, which is not upgradable due to price. There is no way Vista will run on it. Further I have a 4 Monitor setup running from the computer... the video card is 4 years old - will Vista support it?
stevied 02/22/07	Then don't buy Vista. Dell is still offering the outdated XP on computers throughout the Dell product lines. By the by, I am configuring my first Vista computer. First is the key word. When I receive this computer, I have 25 more computers to buy.
icantseeyou 02/22/07	The question is, when will Microsoft end support for XP and make us upgrade to Vista...
stevied 02/22/07	I read/heard that XP would be sold for 12 months past the intro date of Vista. Full support was to be for 5 years after the intro of Vista, and that support has now been extended to 2013 (?). 5 years is a long time for a computer in today's market and most users. I am using a 4 year 10 month old computer at the moment. The computer underwent RAM, USB and GPU upgrade about 18 months ago. Basically I am nursing it along until I get my new computer.
icantseeyou 02/23/07	XP being sold for only 12 months after Vista should tell you something... I strongly doubt if Microsoft will support it once Vista becomes their main platform. If it's 5 years then that's good. But in ... what .. 10 months now you won't be able to buy XP on a computer anymore - you are forced into Vista. And the computer market isn't ready for what it requires and doesn't want it.
stevied 02/24/07	Microsoft just officially stopped supporting Win98 in July 2006. Actually full support, meaning that patches and upgrades being written, was stopped in July. Limited support is still available. Limited in that paid support to cure problems is available, but new patches and upgrades would not be developed, even if a terminal error or flaw was found in Win98. (and paid support is appropriate. I have a 1995 Pontiac that is out of warranty. At some point every warranty and free support has to stop) Being practical, only about 1% of the world is using Win98, and those computers are 8-9 years old. By now terminal software or viral errors should have been found, and equipment failure and lack or cost of replacement parts will errode the user base over the next few years. The support that Microsoft has shown to Win98 is consistent with the level of support that they have provided on Win95 and all the way back to my first 8086 computer loaded with DOS. To believe that the company would abandon the XP customers is highly unlikely. There are legal and ethical requirements that are spelled out in the EULA of every OS sold by Microsoft. To continue to sell XP, would be tantamount to continuing to sell Win95. At some point the company has to move on. 12 months past the introduction of the new software seems quite appropriate to me. Will the world be ready for Vista? Is the world ready for Vista? I have only one major desktop software package that is currently NOT Vista ready. Projected date is April 1. A couple minor software packages are not Vista Ready. Projected delivery dates are "any time now" to "never will happen" But I have a real problem. My electronic Roladex is not even XP ready.
icantseeyou 02/24/07	I'd have to say that at least half my applications are not Vista ready. Most of them are for trading online and such. I won't be upgrading unless I buy a new computer, and I won't be doing that anytime soon.
stevied 02/25/07	half of your applications? How many is half?
icantseeyou 02/26/07	Half is 50%. In canada it's 65%
stevied 02/26/07	how many is half? 1,2, 5, 6, 53, 99 etc. in my situation, I have 1 (that is ONE) major program that is not Vista ready. I have 4 minor programs that are not Vista Ready. Two of those are desktop freight quote shipping systems that will be updated "any time now". I suspect the update will be in conjunction of the freight companies price increase sometime this spring. That is a total of 5 programs. I have 37 programs on my computer. 32 of those are already Vista Ready or have Vista Ready replacements available for purchase or free upgrade. The major program is a stubbling block for my upgrading to Vista. But with an April 1 projected delivery date for the Vista ready version, I suspect I will be using Vista OS by mid April.
icantseeyou 02/26/07	Generally half is 50%... unless as I said you live in Canada and then it's 65%. I have a machine that DOES NOT needs replacing. It's a Dell Workstation that has dual processors etc.... it was expensive. However it doesn't have the memory to run Vista and buying more memory is not an option because Dell thew in four 256 chips which means I would have to replace all of them to get more memory and the chips are as expensive as a new computer. However I am a Daytrader. Tradestation is not Vista ready. They are a large public company - they have enough problems with XP. TCNet which I use also... etc...etc... As it is now I can barely run what Im running.
icantseeyou 03/01/07	TradeStation just now went Vista compliant. The others I am still waiting for. It really doesnt make a diference... I don't have the memory on this Workstation (1 Meg) to run Vista. If I could I would get 2 Meg but that is cost prohibitive since they stuck me with four 256 chips meaning I will have to replace all of them.
jorge 03/02/07	Force Vista down everyone's throat! This way the issues will get fixed by the whinny users complaints before its time for me to upgrade :) Keep on the bleeding edge, and Vista it is for Microsoft OS.
icantseeyou 03/02/07	I've read nothing but negative articles about Vista from publications all over the place. Microsoft has another bomb on their hands.
phubert 03/02/07	Here's another: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html
icantseeyou 03/02/07	"According to a memo being reported on by Information week, the US Department of Transportation has issued a moratorium on upgrading Microsoft products. Concerns over costs and compatability issues has lead the federal agency to prevent upgrades from XP to Vista, as well as to stop users from moving to IE 7 and Office 2007. As the article says,'In a memo to his staff, DOT chief information officer Daniel Mintz says he has placed "an indefinite moratorium" on the upgrades as "there appears to be no compelling technical or business case for upgrading to these new Microsoft software products. Furthermore, there appears to be specific reasons not to upgrade."'"
icantseeyou 03/02/07	"BBC has up an article about the trap of installing Vista in your existing desktop. Written by Tim Weber, a self-confessed 'sucker for technology', this article is a good introduction to the pain and extra money required to get going with the newest version of Windows. See how you can spend an extra 130 british pounds, and still have no working webcam! Says Weber, 'It took me one day to get online. The detail is tedious and highly technical: reinstalling drivers and router firmware didn't work, but after many trial and error tweaks to Vista's TCP/IP settings, I had internet access. Once online, Creative's website told me that my sound card was a write-off. No Vista support would be forthcoming.'"
videonewbee 03/02/07	Its too bad Vista is so bloated and slow vs. XP. I've been reading about the problems on www.tomshardware.com The teckies are up in arms. Twice the memory and a faster chip to get less speed is a real let down especially for the low end business computers. This is not what anyone wanted it seems.
miataracer 03/02/07	It appears to me from what I have read here so far is much ado about nothing. If you linux hardliners want linux, download it. If you need the best of both worlds simply run a VPC. Linux is NOT ready for prime time. There are many issues that would frustrate the average user and even some above average users. If the question is about choice, Dell already offers the option of buying a pc with no OS. I think it would be a bad move on Dell's part to offer assorted varieties of Linux. If they are going to offer it preinstalled then they must have a disclaimer where support is concerned. However if they were to pick a distro and package it properly then and only then would it be in Dell's best interest. I have tried many distros of Linux over the years and frankly I haven't been all that satisfied in terms of functionality. Until the Linux developement community and manufacturing come together in terms of driver support, it just don't cut it. Let me be clear I would love to see a viable competitor for MS but it just isn't available. I will get beat up over this but here goes, the best functioning off the shelf Linux desktop I have used to date is Linspire (formerly Lindows). They have some great stuff. The installation is fast, it can be as geeked out as you want to make it, plus they have the CNR (click and run) software repository which makes it extremely easy to install additional software. That is an important factor when it comes to wide spread acceptance of Linux as an alternative to Windows. There I said it!
stevied 03/02/07	A couple of quick points. 1) I have never done a major upgrade of any program, much less an OS. Upgrading can difficult on a standalone small software program, it can be extremely difficult on a large program, and virtually impossible on a full OS replacement This is a common problem across all OS's. To be clear, the problems described are related to an upgrade from Vista from an XP system. Repeatedly we read that such an upgrade is difficult. At the same time, various users are stating that a clean install is troublefree and quick. As such I continiously read comments from "experts" who recommed a clean install of Vista if you choose to upgrade to Vista. Makes sense to me. Beter yet, I have another suggestion. Buy a new computer, WHEN it is time to buy a new computer. I buy replacement computers for my business on a revolving 5-6 year cycle. I would never upgrade the OS on my business computers. Instead when it is time for new computers for that department, I buy computers with the latest OS. The next business division will get their new computers (with the new OS) the next year, another division the year following, etc. 2) OS Bloat. Legacy issues are the primary reason why ALL software and OS systems are bloated. Legacy issues means that Vista must be backwards compatible with every major component and software package that could or might be used in conjunction with a Vista system. Shucks darn, Vista even has to work with floppy discs. Who really uses floppies any more? Yet Vista's core was written to accomidate the floppy and many more infrequent legacy products and software. Legacy issues will continue to cause OS bloat until such time that OS's are written in user interchangable blocks.
icantseeyou 03/04/07	Apple doesnt seem to have this problem with their operating systems.. why?
stevied 03/04/07	Apple does have similar problems, just not as widespread, because in simple terms the user base is not as large, the number of software packages that work on Apple's OS is smaller thus making the legacy issue less complex. Personally I would like to see an OS from any vendor that was written to NOT support legacy equipment and software. The OS would be streamlined, very effecient, and virtually crack proof. Unfortunately I would be the only customer for such an OS.
icantseeyou 03/07/07	Maybe Dell should arrange to offer XP to customers at a discount... then the customer could decide when to get Vista
mattd 03/18/07	Dell should do this with its Vista install CD's: Install Vista in 2 minutes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVbf9tOGwno
icantseeyou 03/20/07	Upgrading to Windows Vista has been banned by the U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT), the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST), the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), technology giant Texas Instruments and other corporations and government agencies (V1, V10, V11). These organizations are evaluating their options, but overseas it's turning into a stampede to get out of Microsoft software (V15).
icantseeyou 03/31/07	PC Makers to Microsoft: "Vista Is Not a Seller. You Suck" steve-ballmer-groundhog-day.jpgThis may feel like Groundhog Day for you and Steve Ballmer, but according to computer and component manufacturers, Vista is not the hotcake that they were hoping for. The not-so-shiny-shiny-anymore OS is not helping sales at all and some companies may end with a whole bunch of unsold stuff in their warehouses. Take Acer's president, Gianfranco Lanci, who has just said that "PC makers are really not counting on Vista to drive high demands for the industry." Or Samsung Electronics, who now says that DRAM demand has not matched anyone's predictions based on Vista's now failed projections, something that is being echoed by the industry as a whole. So forget about Señor Gates' words on Vista pushing PC sales. You may want to punch us, Bill, but apparently those 20 million copies sold are indeed business as usual. –Jesus Diaz Hasta la Vista baby, say PC makers
reg 04/01/07	The Market has had quite the negative reaction. Vista has hurt computer hardware profits. Vista is slowing PC sales, people don't want to risk the incompatibilities, unsupported software, unsupported hardware, and buggy problems of WindOoze Fista. (but people resist changes most of the time anyway) Well, maybe it was reverse logic? MyCrowSoft wants to get out of the OS business and focus on more profitable business. Looking at Vista, Windows XP Pro SP2 looks soo much better now! I really like XP - great for games.
icantseeyou 04/01/07	I could live with XP for a long time... If they kept offering it I would never upgrade to vista. It took long enough for me to set this machine up (4 monitors, special graphics card, etc...). Now if Dell would only send me some freaking memory since they stuck me with 256 x4 chips (which were the most expensive). So to get more memory I have to buy 4 new chips.... I think it's like $800 and the compuer isn't even worth that much anymore...
icantseeyou 04/04/07	Microsoft: When We Said Microsoft Vista Capable, We Didn't Mean For All The Important Stuff from the false-advertising dept Microsoft has now been sued, after letting PC makers certify their computers as "Windows Vista Capable" for new purchasers -- only to find out that most of Vista's advertised features don't actually work on some of those machines. Instead, to be labeled as Vista Capable, the machines just had to reach a bare minimum of feature support -- much less than what many people were led to believe by the "Vista Capable" certification. While Microsoft may have followed the letter of the law in the way this was pitched, it still makes for an extremely poor marketing strategy, because the only thing it's likely to do is piss off a lot of people who wanted to buy Microsoft's latest operating system and now can't.
reg 04/04/07	http://news.com.com/2061-11199_3-6173137.html< Vista might get Dell Sued?
flooted 04/04/07	Pushing Vista on customers SHOULD get you sued!
icantseeyou 04/04/07	Dell should offer as a standard option, Win XP, Vista, or some brand of Linux. If I were buying another computer I would choose XP.
icantseeyou 04/10/07	Weak Vista Launch Continues To Take Its Toll On Computer Industry from the wow dept The release of Vista was supposed to have been a boon for the computer industry, as many were expecting business and consumers to upgrade their hardware at the same time they upgraded their operating system. But, despite Microsoft's claims to the contrary, the launch has generally been regarded as weak. The upshot is that makers of computers and parts are now being forced to ratchet down expectations. Yesterday, chip maker AMD warned of terrible earnings stemming from low volume and a brutal price war with Intel. Today, hard drive maker Seagate is getting slammed after it warned of weak demand and a difficult price environment. The company didn't say it explicitly, but it seems that the whole industry may have produced way too many drives in anticipation of strong, Vista-driven sales that never materialized. Seagate, of course, has another challenge: convincing investors that its core business is not under threat from makers of flash memory. There's no evidence that its troubles are related to competition from flash, but you can be sure that investors are keeping a close eye on the situation. If makers of flash memory continue to sail along, and prices in that space hold up fairly well, you can be sure that obituaries for the hard drive industry will be written once again.
ggperry76 04/20/07	Please don't force us to buy Vista - XP works - if it ain't broke don't try to phase it out. I work for a large publishing house with over 2500 PC/Macs and we are not going to upgrade to Vista unless Vista can offer something XP can't. We will stockpile XP to delay Vista migration. Please continue to offer the XP option.
mrlinux11 04/20/07	Well they have continued with XP see Ideas in Action http://www.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx/ideastorm/ideasinaction?c=us&l...
d5gg 04/20/07	I bought a core 2 duo inspiron 6400 a month ago with Vista Home Premium pre-loaded. Since having it I have been astonished at how sluggish and un responsive it is. As well as all of the compatibility issues mentioned above it is just plain slow, certainly compared to my 4 year old back up laptop which is Pentium III level of processing. I am currently trying to get Dell to send me XP OS so that I can downgrade back to sometthing that works.
reg 04/20/07	Upgrade your inspiron to 4 GB of RAM, and a 4 GB flash stick for the Speed BOost, tell me if that works?
acannyoldminx 04/20/07	looks like you got your wish! I just wish I hadn't gotten mine a month ago; we're in the process of unloading VISTA and going back to XP!
transit60 04/20/07	The hype on Vista that I've read recently is amazing...negative hype, that is. STEVIED had it right. Vista's problems are the same ones that XP had, and upgrading an OS is just asking for trouble. I have 3 computers running XP and one running Vista. The Vista machine is by far the fastest system of any of them, and the Vista machine is identical in hardware to one of the XP machines, with core2 duo, 256MB graphics and 2GB of memory. There are Vista glitches, of course, but does anyone remember the XP nightmare when it first came out? The hype about XP was as sour as what I'm reading about Vista and now everyone thinks it's the most stable MS/OS ever...and they would be right, until Vista is around a while.
premcv 04/20/07	Eh, reg, it would fly!
icantseeyou 04/20/07	I read that Microsoft is no longer going to give the option to get XP fairly soon.... sounds like they want to force Vista on us. Dell needs to make a deal with Microsoft so we can get XP as an option. I don't even want to buy a new computer if I had to have Vista...
premcv 04/20/07	Microsoft will stop supporting Windows XP mid 2008. :) We have a whole year to play with.
icantseeyou 04/20/07	From C-Net The software maker has said it will stop selling Windows XP to large PC makers by January. Smaller computer sellers, known as system builders, will be able to sell XP machines for an additional year. In a statement last week, Microsoft said such a move is normal after a new operating system comes out. "Windows Vista is safer, easier to use, better connected and more entertaining than any operating system we've ever released, and we're encouraged by the positive customer response we've seen to date," the company said. "It's standard practice to allow OEMs, retailers and system builders to continue offering the previous version of Windows for a certain period of time after a new version is released."
premcv 04/20/07	Don't make us buy Vista, make us buy Microsoft. (Did I say Microsoft? Maybe we could do that. All the world's citizens put in their single dollar and form a company to buy Microsoft. Don't make us buy Vista, Ubuntu will be a very good start.
shreshtha 04/20/07	I dont know what features Microsoft wants to give... Heavy graphics at the cost of performance of machine even with 2gig of RAM. Were they trying to create Linux kind of user and groups. They tried but couldn't even get closure by 1%. I am happy now that I have Windows XP with SP2 and its the best(out of existing windows) as of now... Linux is best... Try Suse 10.1 its terrific... RHEL4 is also great... Cheers!!! Shreshtha
shreshtha 04/20/07	Vista is pathetic… I am using windows/dos since 93. 98 was good, U know how to tweak it to get ur things done. Then came XP. It dint allowed to do as much u did with 98. That created frustration some time but that ok… Graphics came with XP, computer slowed down; still it did not burn your pocket too much. It had some good enhancement wrt 98… so every one gave way to Xp in their room. Forget about millennium etc… Here comes Vista… It wanted to create different users, “u don’t have rights to access the account” and bla bla bla… Linux is far ahead… Even with different users and groups it never tells that u cant tweak the system to meet your end requirement. Some much restriction in Vista… They have changed the place to many things… that all adds to frustration. Which OS allows that a user can delete other user account. Vista… as it can have multiple admin… Forget about graphics which is eating up your RAM, processor, power… Keep you ol XP which is the best…
blackeagle 04/21/07	i want vista
icantseeyou 04/21/07	I've had 98, 2000, and now XP. I run a dual processor Dell. I have a special graphics card that runs my 4 monitors - no question it won't work in vista. I also have a bunch of hardware that I'm sure won't be supported. Further, since I got this machine which has 1Gig, I have found it nearly impossible to increase the memory since it's way expensive and Dell stuck me with four 256 chips. Meaning to double to 2 gig I have to replace all of them. Finally, the software I run usually has me around 70% of system resources. Tell me vista won't cripple this computer?
blackeagle 04/21/07	i have used it and its great
icantseeyou 04/21/07	blackeagle, what kind of system do you have?
icantseeyou 04/23/07	"The Inquirer.net is running a story about what they consider two powerful indications that Vista is failing in the marketplace. One, Dell has reintroduced PCs running Windows XP on its website due to customer demand. Two, Microsoft is conducting a worldwide firesale on a bundle of Microsoft Office 2007/WindowsXP Starter Edition. According to Inquirer.net, at least, these are signs of serious problems selling Vista. Are we seeing the stumbling of the Microsoft Juggernaught with the slow adoption of Windows Vista?"
transit60 04/23/07	icantseeyou, maybe you need to come to terms with your Vista-phobia. And please rest assured, Microsft doesn't own any black helicopters...yet.
icantseeyou 04/23/07	transit, I am about to buy a new computer for my business.... we decided yesterday. What's my #1 concern? Can I find a machine without Vista on it. I still won't order from Dell until the customer service issue is resolved.
transit60 04/23/07	Well, there's a point we can agree on. It's way to early in Vista's short history for business or goverment systems to risk a new OS. I work in city government and we've used Dell systems for years. We probably would have jumped the Dell ship on our next replacement cycle if we had no choice of OS. XP was well beyond SP2 before we began using it with our systems. By the way, it looks from your current system configuration that your work involves some pretty intense manipulation of graphics, so it's not suprising that you use every byte of your Gig of memory. What is suprising is that Dell dumped 256MB sticks on you. That flat out bites!
icantseeyou 04/23/07	Yes, and to make it worse the 512k sticks are obnoxiously expensive. Probably more than the computer is worth. I have a Matrox Multi Monitor card running four 19" LCD screens for trading. The new computer I'm looking for would mainly need processing speed and memory.
blackeagle 04/25/07	i love vista
mindserve 04/28/07	I am a developer and Vista did not ship all the required Dll's and OCX files that are developed by Microsoft which used to ship with XP. This is causing alot of the applications to have problems. Also Vista is buggy when you use it for more than just surfing the Inet. Most developers are waiting for service pack 2 and a few fixes before using it as a development platform.
obrienroad 04/28/07	I would love to know how many support calls Dell is getting regarding Vista - compared to the release of Windows XP during the first three months of its release. As a beta tester for both - I'm willing to bet the farm that Vista is a nightmare come true for the Dell Tech Reps.
reg 04/28/07	If Dell charged $29 per call for VISTA support, they would be posting record PROFITS! :0)
icantseeyou 04/28/07	Well I just bought another Dell. I had to get a computer for new business and the fact was that it would run only ONE piece of software which I was told would work on Vista. Dell sold me a machine with 2Gig, 160HD, CD/DVD burner, and a 20" Digital Flat Panel all for $700. I could have opted for XP however since this machine would never run more than one business application I decided I try it out. I'll post the results after we get the machine and start using it. Keep in mind this was a business computer not a personal one so I get to talk to people in the USA for support. Otherwise I would not have bought it. It should be interesting.
transit60 04/28/07	Wow, icantseeyou, so you took the Vista plung after all. At least it looks like you got a good buy. I really wish you the best of luck. For what it's worth, I've been running Vista now for almost 3 months without any major problems. What Mhz is the RAM in your new system? I put 667Mhz on my new system and I'm glad I spent the extra money for it.
icantseeyou 04/28/07	I have no idea. The application is going to be memory and web intense and running all the time. 1 222-8258 Dimension E521,Athlon 64 X2 3600+ (1.9GHz, 512Kx2) 1 311-6587 2GB DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz 1 310-8025 Dell USB Keyboard 1 320-5092 20 in (20 in viewable) E207FP Widescreen Flat Panel Display 1 320-4270 Integrated Graphics 1 341-4210 160GB SATA II Hard Drive (7200RPM)
transit60 04/29/07	Very nice, you got the 667Mhz RAM AND the 7200RPM drive. Same here, and while running Vista with Aero, 2 web browsers and virus software, I routinely hover around 554MB of memory useage. I hope your experience is as positive as mine has been...so far.
icantseeyou 04/29/07	Me too. If the software I bought doesnt work on this I will be pissed as hell. But I did check and they said it works with Vista. I will prob just run AVG for my virus needs. This is about the 12th Dell I've bought so I know what to get :> The monitor was a very good deal.
transit60 04/29/07	I'm on my 4th Dell at home and 6th at work, so I know what you mean, icantseeyou. Can't wait to hear how your Vista eperience goes.
icantseeyou 05/02/07	I just got the new Dell today. Downloaded the software I needed and everything is working fine. It did take me a while to delete all the bloatware Dell puts on the computer. The speed is good. However, the only thing that seems to make it different than XP was during the setup it automaticaly set up my internet through my router. That was a nice touch... but other than that Vista is just a prettier XP.. Keep in mind I've only had it 6 hours. As far as the Dell computer itself and the Monitor - fabulous value. The 20" monitor kicks ass and the Dell seems solid.
winoffice 05/03/07	I support you, because I want Windows XP Professional and/or Windows Server 2003, and indeed Windows Vista is too new...but in about six months people will be giving opinions about Vista...sure, some good, some bad...but I will surely consider Vista for the future, in about 6 months. Best of all, there will probably already by the time be resellers who sell Vista for less...and Vista is COOL! By the way, Vista needs only 1 or 2 gigabytes, depending, so what you say about Vista needing 4 GB is incorrect and should be removed.
icantseeyou 05/03/07	Well the basic version of Vista seems just like XP. I think it's the advanced versions that are a bigger deal. I use XP Professional on all my other machines. The fact that Dell gave me a very good deal on the new vista machine (2 Gig) is what makes it work. I guess my point is that maybe in a year what I bought will be standard or even better... then we can use Vista. But it's too much program for the machines Dell has even sold a few years ago. Like my workstation with 1 Gig.
icantseeyou 05/05/07	Some of Microsoft's most important customers aren't happy with the battery life offered by notebooks running Windows Vista. "It's a little scary," said John Wozniak, a distinguished technologist in Hewlett-Packard's notebook engineering department, referring to the work HP needed to do on making Windows Vista more suitable for notebooks.
transit60 05/05/07	icantseeyou, i"m glad Vista's working for you so far. I also found the automatic configuration of my network a nice suprise. It was good to see that Microsoft finally got that right. Something else I've liked is the vurtual folders. It's a great way to find scattered files and quickly group them together. I just wish they would fix the VPN problems.
icantseeyou 05/05/07	Yes, the auto config of the network is great - since that used to be such a pain to do... However other than the bubbles screen saver that my kids love I still thing Vista isn't much more than XP.
transit60 05/05/07	lol...yea, the bubbles are cool. One thing I've noticed that I hope keeps up...When I've run into software compatibility issues, they have not crashed Vista yet, like XP used to do. So far, it's been pretty stable...((crossing fingers))
icantseeyou 05/06/07	I've never crashed XP. It's hard to tell if Vista is more stable because I have 2 GIG! It's a powerhouse computer compared to the others. Also I have the integrated video card... which makes it less likely to crash.
blackcow 05/06/07	I'm running Vista with 2 gigs, rock solid stability, way better then XP. The reason it looks like it uses more RAM is because it was developed to take advantage of unused RAM. This is makes things VERY fast. It is a problem in BF2 because its a RAM hog but just select "run in XP compatibility mode" and it won't use super prefetch thus removing the jitter in BF2. Future games will take advantage with super prefetch properly though.
icantseeyou 05/07/07	I didn't buy mine for games... just business applications. I have had no problems so far. Actually just annoying stuff - for example the computer comes configured to "put the computer to sleep" after 15 minutes and the monitor off after 1 hour..." Why oh why would a desktop come with these settings? These are laptop issues... I was pulling my hair out why my mail wasn't bouncing to my other two computers until I realized that this one was asleep. Also the program I have running updates every hour... which means it hasn't been when I've been asleep. Of course off topic but I requested that NONE of the pre loaded software come pre-loaded.... and it all did. First thing I did was uninstall McAfee etc... Cmon Dell.. Mcafee is the worse virus there is. I still cant erase it from my wifes computer - it's all over the place. The business software I am using was all Vista compliant before I bought the machine... so no problems at all so far. However if I were to try to run it on THIS machine (Dell workstation dual processor 1meg, 4 screen matrox video card (yes, I have 4 screens)... I would bet you that there is no way it would work.
icantseeyou 05/07/07	Also, as I have mentioned. I see no features on Vista that are different than XP except for the automatic network finding. Also, the stability could just as easily be related to the new computer and 2 GIG it came with.
limerat 05/08/07	I bought a bare bones system so i could avoid the Microsoft tax and so i would not be forced to have Vista on my hard drive.(Which i would have paid for and ended up removing to install Linux.) Had you offered Linux several months earlier,I'd have bought a machine from you.
reg 05/09/07	*Vista vs.* Mac Showdown.**
icantseeyou 05/09/07	I don't want a Mac... just what I need is a whole new operating system my software won't run on :>
transit60 05/09/07	icantseeyou, regarding Mcaffee, I have the same problem on my wife's computer. That was the first thing I got rid of when I got my laptop. Makes me wonder if Mcaffee itself is a virus. I put Avast on mine...runs lean, mean and it's free. As for mac, I think they are kind of the public TV of computers...limited programs and sure, it's reliable, but what does that matter if nobody tunes in? You could make the move to Linux...oh wait, you probably can't. Come to think if it, I couldn't either. Is this why so many linux fanatics seem so hostile?
icantseeyou 05/09/07	I got McAfee off my computers but couldnt get it all the way off my wifes. I use AVG, SpyBot, etc.... I even have a registry program that can't get rid of it all. As far as I'm concerned McAfee is the worst virus out there. I agree about Macs. If you do graphics get one... otherwise don't. I also agree about Linux. We all know it's not ready for public use. That's why I think they should keep XP as an option in the years to come. At least until our machines catch up to Vista and Vista gets the bugs out.
mrlinux11 05/10/07	@icantseeyou You have have not tried a mac lately (or if ever) "I agree about Macs. If you do graphics get one... otherwise don't."
icantseeyou 05/19/07	I was considering replacing my Dual Processor Dell Workstation since it sounds like a hairdryer... and called a local technician to see about moving stuff to a new Dell. Turns out it would be too expensive and I would have problems with my multi monitor card. What was interesting was that he said never get Vista. I said why since I have it on my new machine here. He said he had the more expensive version of vista (mine came with barebones) and he HATED it. Said it crashed machines and ate memory. This guy who specializes in computers said it was HARD to use. Amazing.
jorge 05/19/07	Well most Windows users think Linux is hard to use but many people do. Its just an OS, yes its a heavy weight OS (Vista) but after a while you'll get comfortable with it, heavy weight as in you need major CPU and RAM to get it to do things effictiently (like a duo core 2 and 4 gig of ram).
icantseeyou 05/19/07	Yeah, but I bought this $4500 Dell Workstation in 2004 and I'm not quite ready to throw it out. A shame it can't be upgraded and improved without major cost.
kevintrooper 06/26/07	Did you know u dont have to buy vista! they r still offering xp!
reg 06/26/07	XP Notice that the 'P' is the silly dua tongue: :-P and X of course, is insane laughter: X-D So XP is the Microsoft Emoticon of them laughing themselves stupid over how you all bought into the whole Windows spaghetti code pile of closed source. Next up is 'Windows Vista ROTFLMFAO ! ' costing $999 and you must use your own blood as the authentication code.
jayrenn 02/09/08	I was forced to get Vista with the Inspiron 530 I bought four months ago. I have been tortured by Vista enough over the last four months that I'm reformatting it with XP. After that, I'm through with Microsoft -- the next time I upgrade I'm going to a Mac.
phubert 02/13/08	Well, at least try a dual-boot of Ubuntu... Linux is better every day... and so much software is truly FREE.
bill_b 02/26/08	Hi, all. As you have flushed out in the comments, Dell is now offering XP on most business workstations, desktop and laptop systems. How long we will continue to offer XP on those systems is constantly under review. As far as support, Dell's phone in, email and online support for any system, regardless of O/S, ends when the hardware warranty ends. So, by nature of the warranty agreement we will support XP for at least that long. For more definitive information on Microsoft's projected support cycle, you may want to read over Microsoft Support Lifecycle.
kara_k 02/26/08	Changed status to IMPLEMENTED. You can read more about this Idea in Action here.
jmxz 06/17/08	@kara_k Should the status on this one be changed to "Partially Implemented"? I still see systems (currently looking for a quad-core desktop/workstation) where Vista seems to be the only option on many models. Yes, I know this is "Implemented" on some models -- but if that's the criteria for having an Idea's status set to "Implemented", there are a number of other top-voted ideas (like Open Office and firefox) that could be set to "Implemented" by that criteria as well.
gbytes 09/20/08	Vista is a fine OS. Heck even the Beta of Vista beats XP. You should stop listening to no live Mac fanboys that just go on every website and posts how Vista stinks. I made Vista run SMOOTHLY under a PIII 800MNhz with 256MB of RAM, yes, bellow the minimum system requirements of Vista. Yes I admit I had to disable many services and Aero, and it was a pain to do it, as everything is enabled by default. But nerveless it doable. To have Vista run smoothly with default settings all you really need is a dual core CPU (as the the core and all processes are design and perform better on multi-core CPUs, instead of (like XP and older) just go on the most free CPU, 2GB of RAM (if you have 1GB or lower you should disable SuperFetch. Superfetch (under services) connected to the Core of the OS is a technology that "reserves" RAM and preloads application system files (dll) before you do, so that you have applications start-up up to 6 times faster I calculated and that was with Adobe Photoshop CS3 Extended on the same computer, between Vista and XP. Now it learns on you, if you just use your web browser, then super fetch will start "reserving" much less RAM, and more if you use software like I don't know 3D studio max or something. Now I say "reserve" with quotes as it does not really reserve, if your system needs more RAM, Superfetch will automatically free it. As it is tied to the OS kernal, there is no delay and knows when to do it. Try this, look at your RAM, and startup many big applications. You will see that the RAM will stay the same, and could even lower and increase back up, and be a tiny bit more up then before. As for multi-core supported (and when I mean support, I mean actually takes advantage of it), see this: In XP, the second you see the talk bar on your screen, after log-in while you still have processes loading, click on the Start Menu (don't' wait until it finishes loading), and try to access stuff on the All program sections. You see that the Start menu will close on you several times on you when you try it. If you have a My computer shortcut on your desktop, and you double click on it, while XP loads it won't open and show the content. You have to wait. But In Vista it is not the case. While the system load you can access it, and start all your things. There is no wait. Even if you startup a large project from the Explorer, you don't have to wait until the program starts and teh project to load to have access back to the folder like in XP and older WIndows version. Also let's not forget Vista, unlike XP and older windows, doens't need to be re-installed every 3 month to enjoy peek performance of your system. It doesn't slow down over time due to it's auto maintenance and disk defrag. Is Vista perfect, no, same as XP. If you actually USE Vista, and turn back to XP, you will see all the annoyances and bugs will come forward in front of you, all these bugs that you got used to live with them will come forward and you will see that both OS are just as crappy. Another problem is Bit version. most issues reported only affect the 32-bit version of Vista. Comparing Vista 64-bit to the 32-bit, you can see that the 32-bit version was really a last minute thing, it's far from (even with SP1) being as polished as Vista 64-bit. In fact, if you have 64-bit drivers for all your peripherals, and you use well programed software (take it from a programmer :) ), there are no reason why should not go with Vista 64-bit. I mean you have PURCHASED a 64-bit CPU, for some Direct X10 video card, 4GB of RAM (as XP nor Vista or any 32-bit OS actually uses your 4GB of RAM, in fact 3.5 to 3.8 (if you are lucky 3.8, depends on your hardware configuration and motherboard) GB of RAM is used. When Microsoft or any other OS including Linux says "Support": they mean the OS will work and not crash on you. There are some reports of people discovering that your system is actually slower with 4GB of RAM with a 32-bit OS) and you go and lock it all down to a 32-bit, DirectX 9, 3.8Gb of RAM system. It's like on the old computers, you know the ones with the Turbo button, and you go "Oh man, my computer is too fast me, let me slow it down by turning off the Turbo feature". if that is the case, then why even bother with an Intel Core 2 Duo or AMD Athlon X2, just stick with a overclocked 5-6Ghz P4 and 3Gb of RAM, at least you get and USE what you paid for. I think Vista biggest mistake was to release Vista in 32-bit. Not having the 32-bit version will force people with 200$ laptops that can't even run XP correctly uses Vista and complains how crappy it is, and also have 1 OS to maintain not 2, which could have lead to a better image, especially that, as I mentioned, Vista 64-bit is more polished. Let alone the ability to run32 and 64-bit software, drivers and codecs, heck unlike XP 64-bit edition, Vista 64-bit is ALL made for 64-bit. Hense the reason why Vista 64-bit is bigger then the 32-bit as not only it has System32, directory but SysWOW64 (System32 but 64-bit) and about all the applications that Windows comes no only in 32 but 64-bit version as well. Now, you have Vista 32-bit, and want 64-bit. If you have the Home Premium or Business you can order for free (I think you pay shipping only (price varies depending on the region)) from Microsoft the 64-bit version (In Canada it's 10$ I think). The Ultimate edition has both disks. If you have an OEM disk or the one from Dell for example, ask a friend for the 64-bit disk (ANY edition retail or oem, all disks are identical), install Vista with YOUR product key, and you are set. It is the product key that decides the edition to install (not the bit version). Is it legal? I am not sure, but I don't think Microsoft cares, i mean you are satisfied and you still use Vista that you purchased on 1 and the same computer. YES, Vista will activate fine. Hope this helps, and I hope this clears a lot of the false facts that has been mentioned.
jmxz 09/21/08	@gbytes: "I made Vista run... I admit I had to disable many services and Aero, and it was a pain to do it,... Also let's not forget Vista, unlike XP and older windows, doens't need to be re-installed every 3 month to enjoy peek performance of your system. ....Is it legal? I am not sure,... " LOL. @gbytes: "4GB of RAM (as XP nor Vista or any 32-bit OS actually uses your 4GB of RAM ..." Of course 32-bit OS's can and have for a very long time -- ever since Intel increased the number of address lines on its CPUs (yes, even the 32-bit ones) to 36. Even 32-bit windows 2000 happily supported 32-GB of physical ram Pretty much every 32-bit x86 OS that can run on Pentium Pro or newer x86 CPUs can access over 4GB RAM, unless they intentionally restrict it to something smaller for licensing reasons. And you can see that microrosft loves arbitrary memory restrictions so they can upsell you to more expensive versions.

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