Get rid of BIOS, use EFI - Dell IdeaStorm

How IdeaStorm Works:

New Product Ideas Comments | New Product Ideas Ideas | Desktops and Laptops Comments | Desktops and Laptops Ideas

686

Get rid of BIOS, use EFI

686 points posted to New Product Ideas, Desktops and Laptops by joeaguy 02/19/07

Why are PC makers so slow to swith from BIOS to EFI? Apple did it with their Intel macs, and there are tons of reports that Windows runs faster on a Mac under BootCamp than with equivalent PC hardware. There is something to be said for their simpler EFI based hardware architecture helping speed. If Microsoft is the big hold up here, surely PC makers can put some pressure on. The PC needs to shed all of the old tech that is still in the spec.

teotwawki 02/21/07	And my MacBook has no problem booting any of my Linux Live CDs.
bamorrow 03/08/07	Strongly agree here that getting rid of the legacy BIOS stuff would be a very good start. We use these on there systems then just the MAC now and it allow for much more control and expandability then the legacy BIOS. I would especially like ot see this on the server line of systems.
jhill25570 03/10/07	I was hoping that Dell, and Microsoft, would move to EFI, when Vista came out. News articles say that EFI is better, so why are they still using the old BIOS system.
cosh 04/08/07	I don't like this idea one bit. The change of BIOS to EFI will do nothing for speed or stability or any of those things. I don't really know why you want it or what you think it would do that's so wonderful. Most certainly, the BIOS is not "legacy", not holding PC's back, and really, an EFI is only a type of BIOS anyway. All it would do really is allow hardware-based DRM restrictions.
bamorrow 04/12/07	Cosh: Curious where you get your point of view on this? Why do you say the "BIOS" is not legacy? How do you see EFI as a way to add to DRM. I see it as way to add in new and better feature at all level of systems (having used server with EFI it is far better to work with then the BIOS systems in current PC's and does not get in the way with booting and turning control over to the OS which is a VERY common problem in system I work with.
cosh 04/12/07	The BIOS is perfectly satisfactory. So therefore it's not legacy. As for DRM, that's a known worry. EFI's ability to block types of memory access and usage from the operating system can be used to force content from digital media through a certain codepath - in other words through the content protection check.
pandamonium54 05/02/07	BIOS was designed 15+ years ago. It was not designed to accomodate the current technology. Extensions to BIOS have given it interoperability, but these extensions are not ideal. For those of you familiar with programming, there are two choices: 1) 10,000 lines of code so that 100% of the market is compatible, but 99% of it performs at 75% efficiency 2) 5,000 lines of code so that 99% of the market runs optimally, and 1% is left out in the cold? BIOS is 1), EFI is 2). From the consumer's point of view, EFI is great because you can theoretically turn a computer without an OS on, and browse the internet for drivers and what have you. It gives you basic- really basic- functionality. Another benefit is speed. The only reason OS X "boots up faster" than XP is because EFI gets all devices initialized faster. We're talking about maybe a 10-20 second improvement in boot times, but it's still one step closer to "instant-on" computing. From the industry's point of view, EFI also provides the framework necessary to implement system-level DRM. As of 5/1/07, no retail consumer motherboards have EFI. That's one reason why VIsta does not support EFI. So even IF you were to obtain a non-Apple non-Itanium EFI motherboard, that motherboard's EFI would have to emulate BIOS in order to install/boot Vista.
trfs 10/03/07	I have found board here that supports EFI: http://www.intel.com/products/motherboard/D945PLNM/index.htm . Also we will have to wait until Vista SP1 comes out. But EFI is coming.
toggi3 Feb 16	I would definitely love to see more EFI in the PC market. Please consider this people at dell! Many setups are EFI ready but just dont have it enabled, and EFI today has BIOS compatibility. No reason not to move on to something better.
he_the_great Jun 13	I just read through wikipedia pages and have come to the conclusion that nothing about what a BIOS is excludes EFI from being one. So in reality you saying you don't want to talk to you hardware because it is faster. Also reading more, I come to find that neither Windows or Linux continue to go through the BIOS to access the hardware once the computer has started. So tell me how can the BIOS make the system slower if it is no longer used? And lastly on a note of the initialization time, I only have 3 areas of slowdown during post: if I have a secondary drive but no primary, the memory check, and the fact that I have a PCI Sata card, without those post time is very fast. Besides most of its other benefits are no longer specific to it, look at Splashtop.
thamlyn Jun 17	Merged Idea originally posted 04/12/07 Transition from BIOS to EFI The Extensible Firmware Interface (EFI) is a software interface between an operating system and platform firmware. EFI is intended as a significantly improved replacement of the old BIOS firmware interface.
cosh Jun 17	Merged Comment originally posted 04/12/07 This is a duplicate. Vote on the original too: http://www.ideastorm.com/article/show/62435/Get_rid_of_BIOS_use_EFI
jhill25570 Jun 17	Merged Idea originally posted 03/28/07 Dell should move, from BIOS, to Extensible Firmware Interface (EFI) Intel plans could mean death of the BIOS Intel Developer Forum Where does that leave everyone else? By Mike Magee: Sunday 23 February 2003, 14:59 Click here to find out more! SEVERAL PRESENTATIONS AT the Forum last week forecast the death of the 16-bit real mode BIOS, and that could spell trouble for Intel's competitors, if mobo makers accept the plans. Mark Doran, a principal engineer at the Intel Corporation, produced a presentation called "Beyond the BIOS", which made several points about "traditional" BIOS technology. This cunning plan is called the Extensible Firmware Interface (EFI), but we're not absolutely certain that other CPU manufacturers, such as AMD and Via, are showing as much enthusiasm for EFI as Intella herself. Those are that the good old BIOS means a "slower ramp" to intro new features and initiatives, platform compatability is affected by problems with OptionROM, it's a "primitive" manufacturing and testing environment, assembly programmers for this are thin on the ground, the cost to maintain and deploy BIOS increases all the time, and lastly, but we think from Intel's point of view, firstly, 16-bit real mode BIOS is "impractical" for the Itanic architecture. EFI sits above the old BIOS, has a driver model for firmware, are, apparently, CPU architecture neutral. EFI is an interface spec for the whole industry. The plans are that a non BIOS implementation of EFI will last a "second 20 years", and will scale for the Itanic, IA32, Xscale, will be C-based, and needs no "exotic" tools, and will "accommodate" the legacy BIOS. Intel thinks that EFI apps will allow a full TCP/IP network stack in pre-boot, as well as a standard environment, difficult for some OSes, including embedded DOS and Linux. It will also abstract the BIOS from the OS, it will be modular, and it "complements existing interfaces". One of the problems with the current OptionROM (OpROM) is that it's only a "temporary solution" for Itanium platforms, and can't support large server IO card configurations. There's some interesting comments on this AMD Zone forum about these cunning plans. µ
steve2 Jun 17	Merged Comment originally posted 03/28/07 Can anyone explain to me, why EFI is not a BIOS (or part of one)?
brightidea Jun 17	Merged Comment originally posted 03/29/07 We need support for simple, clean and open standards like OpenFirmware http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Firmware . There are free (libre and gratis) implementation available. Let's use them. We do not need the unnecessary complex, blated and insecure EFI.
lastdeadmouse Jun 17	Merged Comment originally posted 03/29/07 Linuxbios, Open Firmware....
bogdano2 Jun 17	Merged Comment originally posted 05/20/07 I agree whole heartedly; with EFI, adding Internet capabillity would be a cinch. See my post at: http://www.ideastorm.com/article/show/67418/PCs_With_Embedded_Internet_Capabi...
mkmaster78 Jun 17	Merged Idea originally posted 10/11/07 Support Intel's EFI (Extensible Firmware Interface) Dell should start preparing to implent EFI. It's far better than those legacy bioses, and even store and launch useful apps, without an operating system. I know this is going to irritate some people, but Apple already uses it. Linux can also use it. Currently, the only OS that doesn't support it is Windows, but that will probably change, plus EFI can emulate a BIOS in order to launch OS's like Windows. For more information just follow this link http://www.intel.com/technology/efi/ Edit Note: Realize high likelihood of dupe here, but nothing popped up on the previewer.
visiocloud Jun 17	Merged Comment originally posted 10/11/07 As long as it's an option, I'm in
mkmaster78 Jun 17	Merged Comment originally posted 10/11/07 It could be optional, though I don't see why you would need it to be (as it can carry out everything a BIOS does and then some), but hey, to each his own I suppose.
aikiwolfie Jun 17	Merged Comment originally posted 10/14/07 Implement it now. Oh wait they can't. Windows still has a DOS component that can't work without a 30 year old, 40 year old or older BIOS model. Another example of something that could be done now but won't be. Dell please please get a grip and catch up. Windows is yesterdays news.
mkmaster78 Jun 17	Merged Comment originally posted 11/05/07 @aikiwolfie, EFI is backwards compartible with a BIOS and should be able to 'fake it' for Windows purposes. After all, Mac uses a proprietary version of EFI, and yet you can install Windows on it.
aikiwolfie Jun 17	Merged Comment originally posted 11/06/07 Doesn't the Mac have something called bootcamp or some such? Don't really know a whole lot about the Mac. Except it looks good inside and out. The Mac pro looks all Treky inside.
mkmaster78 Jun 17	Merged Comment originally posted 11/07/07 Mac uses a proprietary form of EFI. Bootcamp is a totally seperate application.
aikiwolfie Jun 17	Merged Comment originally posted 11/07/07 Yeah I know. But isn't the Mac boot process totally different to a IBM type PC which is why bootcamp is needed instead of just a straight dual boot like we'd have with a Windows + Linux system?
mkmaster78 Jun 17	Merged Comment originally posted 11/07/07 Bootcamp is needed for Mac so it can partition the disc and and prepare the firmware to boot to the OS.
pablohs Jun 17	Merged Idea originally posted Jun 16 Include EFI support in all your machines (PC and Laptops). This idea has already been posted last year, I am just trying to revive it because I really believe it is important. Include EFI support in all your machines (PC and Laptops). The grand majority of Intel motherboards ship with Framework-based firmware. New mobile, desktop and server products, using the Framework, started shipping in 2006. For instance, all boards that use the Intel 945 chipset series use the Framework. However, the production firmware usually does not include EFI support, and is limited to legacy BIOS. Promote the following ideas also: http://www.ideastorm.com/article/show/64757/EFI_eSATA_fingerprint_reader http://www.ideastorm.com/article/show/74380/Support_Intels_EFI_Extensible_Fir... http://www.ideastorm.com/article/show/65424/Dell_should_move_from_BIOS__to_Ex... http://www.ideastorm.com/article/show/62435/Get_rid_of_BIOS_use_EFI http://www.ideastorm.com/article/show/65837/Transition_from_BIOS_to_EFI
he_the_great Jun 17	@aikiwolfie, no, Linux has been dual booting on Macs forever. And now that I found out about EFI it looks like Bootcamp doesn't do anything, or at least anything useful. Partitioner? fdisk, gparted... Preperation? thats what Windows and Linux do by default. EFI handles selecting your OS, grub. People keep saying it is a BIOS replacement, but I want to know why it's not considered a BOIS? Let me quote Steve2 on this too, "Can anyone explain to me, why EFI is not a BIOS (or part of one)?"
aikiwolfie Jun 17	I think this explains EFI nicely. It's a different way of doing things. The BIOS initializes the hardware and makes it ready for use. Something all modern operating systems do anyway. EFI doesn't so far as I can fathom. So it cuts out an unnecessary step and cuts down boot time as a result. Dells BIOS can take anywhere from 5 to 20 seconds to load. ... And then you boot Linux or Windows or whatever. "The Extensible Firmware Interface (EFI) is a specification that defines a software interface between an operating system and platform firmware. EFI is intended as a significantly improved replacement of the old legacy BIOS firmware interface historically used by all IBM PC compatible personal computers.[1] The EFI specification was originally developed by Intel, and is now managed by the Unified EFI Forum and is officially known as Unified EFI (UEFI)."
he_the_great Jun 24	ok, looks like my replay didn't make it, so here's a shorter version. First off a quote from howstuffworks.com http://computer.howstuffworks.com/bios.htm "When you turn on your computer and the microprocessor tries to execute its first instruction, it has to get that instruction from somewhere. It cannot get it from the operating system because the operating system is located on a hard disk, and the microprocessor cannot get to it without some instructions that tell it how. The BIOS provides those instructions. " So tell me how does it replace the BIOS? Or should I say how does the EFI bypass all initialization steps.
aikiwolfie Jun 24	Because it does.
mkmaster78 Jun 25	EFI still initializes the hardware, just in a smarter more direct way.
he_the_great Jun 25	It's a specification it can't do a * thing. "The Extensible Firmware Interface (EFI) is a specification ..."
aikiwolfie Jun 25	Weel if you take that line then BIOS is four buttons on your keyboard. There are EFI implementations. Like on the Mac.
mkmaster78 Jun 26	@he_the_great: EFI can also refer to implementations of the specification.
he_the_great Jun 26	The point is how it has to be implemented, and that would be through a component called the BIOS. You can replace the way the BIOS does initialization and input output handling with that of the EFI specification, but you can't get rid of it. The BIOS is not a specification it is a component that handles hardware initialization, it's name comes from the fact that it gave Basic Input and Output, but its job is to get the system started.

Please log in to post a comment

last 100 promotions:

recently demoted by:

Status

IdeaStorm Team

Meet the Team!

How IdeaStorm Works:

Categories

Status

IdeaStorm Team