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-80

Seperate Linux promos to its own section

-80 points posted to Linux by bobwalt 08/19/08

Despite a vocal group that supports it Linux will not be a viable OS option for the vast majority of endusers. It would be wonderful if while going through these ideas I didn't have to run across a bunch of ideas that promote Linux. I somehow can not picture everyday people like my 75 year old father-in-law ever getting used to it. We need ideas to make PCs more friendly not more obscure.

sirebral
08/19/08		 I completely disagree and I will tell you why.

Apple has their OS X, and they can package their OS X with their computers and have the OS configured to preform specifically for THAT computer. They can do that and reduce the amount of OS bloat an end user is required to deal with. I think DELL should heavily invest in Ubuntu, get a license they can work with, and then provide a Ubuntu on their computers to compete with Apple and OS X.

I'm not saying this because I dislike Apple and I want Apple to fail. Nope. I am saying this because I dislike how Microsoft dictates the advancement of PC's based on their software. I am saying this also because Apple has succeeded and their Niche market has expanded, and I think DELL would see the same success. Plus it would be nice to see DELL ween of the Microsoft requirements and start making their own rules.

Ubuntu could be created with more End User friendliness. It will take time, but it will be a better OS then Vista.
winoffice
08/19/08		 I agree, all of these "Linux this, Linux that" ideas are annoying.
bobwalt
08/19/08		 Linux has no place in consumer computers and not much place in business. It is, however, less expensive up front but in the long run it is much less useful. With no resources to invest in usability Linux will always be a niche market.
aikiwolfie
08/20/08		 Dell don't need a license to work with Ubuntu. Ubuntu is FOSS. Free Open Source Software. There are a few proprietary drivers in there. But that's not a huge issue.

Ubuntu and GNU/Linux in general is a more stable and resource efficient OS. Which is exactly what is needed for business. The user interface is easy to use. The Gnome and KDE environments are as easy to use as Windows XP. Which is what most businesses are using. In fact some of the key features that make Windows easy to use like, the desktop, windowed applications, scroll bars and the taskbar all started life on software not from Microsoft.

In fact take a look at the Xerox Star from 1981! Xerox had already put in place everything Microsoft were selling in 1986. Maybe it's Microsoft Windows that has no place in business or consumer PCs.
Photobucket

This advert for Windows is from 1986.
sirebral
08/20/08		 Actually it is mainly the proprietary drivers i am considering.

That advert is wacky.

Regardless, DELL could take Ubuntu to a new level. They could make it more user friendly. They could offer platforms that are specific to the computer's needs. They could also get their hands on proprietary drivers and make them available. In the hands of DELL, linux could really clean up.
aikiwolfie
08/20/08		 I think you're giving Dell too much credit. Their Linux guys are top notch. But ... they're only part of the story. For Dell to take Linux to a new level would require a bigger team and that's when Dell starts to fall apart. Big teams need better communication and Dell don't seem to have the internal communication structures in place. And if they are? They aren't being used which is actually even worse.
sirebral
08/20/08		 awww, maybe you are right. Except I'm betting on the way Apple has slowly taken over. Apple had only a niche in the market, and I thought some of apples computers were just laughably stupid. But they are ironing things out now.
aikiwolfie
08/20/08		 Apple is a much smaller company though. Smaller development teams. Less people to keep informed. Maybe it is the way Dell should go. But they won't. Dell has shareholders that want a return on their investments.

Look at how long it tool to get the Crystal LCD display thing out to market. Look at how long it's taking to get the Mini out to market. Why is it taking so long?
comprevolution
08/20/08		 i'm with the vast majority that dis agrees...

i believe the only reason why most don't know how to use linux, is becuase there flooded with Windows.

if it was in the common market as a standard alt to windows everywhere, and it was used in schools i think it would put windows on a shelf.... like a lower shelf... or a back shelf... really just a different shelf... thats bad... really bad... ok im done.
rebresb
08/20/08		 Linux offerings are too isolated on the web site as they are now. Windows is still presented as the default throughout, with only scant mention of the existence an alternative (and only on a small % of total offerings). Equal billing makes more sense. For naive computer users, many linux distros are much more user-friendly than Windows, especially if preconfigured & distributed with new PCs. Win and Mac aren't more intuitive than recent Linux - as mentioned, familiarity with one interface is a source of bias, not validation of superiority. Ignorance about recent Linux is apparent in the comments by some, however.

At the moment, Linux is the only alternative (on non-Mac hardware) to the illegal MS monopoly targeted in US and European court proceedings. Open-source and it's adherence to open standards (International Organization for Standardization, World Wide Web Consortium) are the future of computing and provide tremendous benefits to business and home users alike. Any perceptive examination of IT market trends clearly identify the demise of the MS business model of proprietary OS and software licensing (for all routine tasks, specialty application markets will always exist).

Manipulation of the market by one company is clearly detrimental. Why would one be against choice and positive developments for consumers?
aikiwolfie
08/20/08		 Typical Microsofties can't handles any hint of competition.
marshallpd
08/20/08		 Even though I'm very pro-Linux, I support this idea. I think the poster is talking about a different Linux section for ideastorm (he continually mentions 'ideas' ... and I think the Linux stuff is pretty separated on the main site as is). I think there should be a better categorizing system on ideastorm (or at least make the current system easier to navigate).

Side note: I completely disagree with the comments that Linux has no place in the consumer home or in business. That's just ignorance, no more justification necessary. (I agree that it's maybe not the best thing right now for my Grandma, but that's hardly the complete home and business market.)
aikiwolfie
08/21/08		 There's already a Linux section on IdeaStorm for Linux specific issues. Just as there is a section for Laptops and Desktops and another for Displays etc. The fact of the matter is Linux doesn't exist in a vacuum. It's now a visible part of the IT landscape and people are just going to have to deal with that fact.

Linux gets a lot of exposure on IdeaStorm because Linux is popular with IdeaStorm members. Not all of them I'll admit. But most of them. So perhaps it's not Linux that needs to be hived off into a little dark corner? And why exactly is Linux being singled out? Why not single out all the Mac or Windows XP ideas that are never going to happen?

One way or another, sooner or later the IT landscape will change. If Linux doesn't replace Windows something else will. So get used to the idea of Windows reaching the end of it's shelf life. It's just around the corner. In fact I suspect Windows 7 will be the last full fat version of Windows to be released. Even Microsoft realizes their business model no longer works. Which is why they are now working so hard desperately trying to salvage Vista. Which is why they are thrashing around trying to muscle in on the web search market. Which is why they are selling Novell SuSE Enterprise Linux support vouchers.

The end is near. Deal with it.
comprevolution
08/21/08		 @ Aikiwolf

About your pic up above.

Xerox created the GUI interface... but Xerox executives said that it wasnt good enought for the xerox name. so they let Apple have it. then MS stole it from Apple.

(that may have been in your post i didn't read the whole thing)
aikiwolfie
08/21/08		 What I was pointing out in my post was there is nothing new in Microsoft Windows now and there never has been. In fact Microsoft have always been about 5 to 10 years behind everybody else. If we take a look at what Xerox were doing in 1981 and what Microsoft were doing in 1985, the Xerox GUI is clearly superior. It just gives you that feel that it's been put together properly.

The Xerox execs didn't like the GUI idea because it threatened their core business of making printers and photocopiers. What the engineering team at Xerox PARC were proposing wasn't just a GUI to make PCs easier to use. They went to the board with a pitch about the "paperless" office. A bit stupid if you work for a printer manufacturer. The GUI system they produce came complete with ALL the same basic tools we have today including spreadsheets, word processors and even e-mail. The E-mail is significant because this was put together before anybody really had e-mail.

Those guys were so far a head of their time it's almost an insult for any Microsoftie to claim an OS like Linux has no business in the home or office. Microsoft has no claim to ownership of the GUI concept. Anybody is free to build a GUI based OS and sell it to office workers or home users.
bobwalt
08/22/08		 >>Anybody is free to build a GUI based OS and sell it to office workers or home users. << And when those people, who may not be engineers buy that system they will be in for a big nasty surprise the first time they try to use it for something other than email. They will then be in for an even bigger surprise when they try to install the brand new video card, sound card or perhaps even monitor. So yes perhaps any can built one but building one that can be used by hundreds of millions of people who do not posses an advanced computer science degree is a challenge. I suspect that there are a great many people out there who have lost touch with the general populace and forget that there are a great many more non computer users in the world then there are computer users.
aikiwolfie
08/23/08		 Are you kidding me? Have you ever actually tried to make sense of a Windows error message? Even people with computer science degrees have a hard time with that task. Now it's a pretty big assumption to make that hardware vendors aren't going to back a new OS. Take a look at what's happening in the mobile phone market right now. Several new Linux based OSs and projects are in full swing now. It's the same with the UMPC market. A market Microsoft practically invented. It was a Linux driven UMPC that broke that market and made it popular. The Eee PC.

Currently in the graphics department Linux has the backing of Intel, Nvidia and AMD/ATI. Did I miss any of the major players we need to know about? Nvidia even produces a rather nice 3D rendering application for Linux and ATI are actively involved in producing an open source driver along side their closed source driver.

It takes time to build up relationships with hardware vendors and garnish their support. But nobody is barred from the table by any stretch of the imagination. Linux distributions like Ubuntu are all about making the computer easier to use. So why wouldn't they have a place in the home or office space?
 
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