Dell needs to develop a backup strategy to the risk Microsoft poses to the industry

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Dell needs to develop a backup strategy to the risk Microsoft poses to the industry

260 points posted to Dell by phubert Apr 10

Gartner: Windows collapsing under its own weight; Radical change needed

Microsoft’s Windows juggernaut is collapsing as it tries to support 20 years of applications and becomes more complicated by the minute. Meanwhile, Windows has outgrown hardware and customers are pondering skipping Vista to wait for Windows 7. If Windows is going to remain relevant it will need radical changes. ****

http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=8428&tag=nl.e550

phubert Apr 10	I suspect this will be deleted because it "isn't an idea". But the IDEA is that Dell presently has no backup strategy TO Microsoft, with Ubuntu squirreled-away well out of Steve Ballmer's sight.
jervis961 Apr 10	I was about to comment that this won't last long.
phubert Apr 10	Someone on another site commented as follows: "Do note that the article entirely side-stepped the "DRM-in-the-kernel" issue that's the cause of so many of Vista's woes. No sense reminding people about that evil DRM that's built into the heart of Vista..."
darklurker Apr 10	Yeah, that was me. ;)
jackie_c Apr 10	@phubert: Shouldn't this be a comment on an Ubuntu idea?
phubert Apr 10	Well, not really. It is unique as it addresses a risk Dell and other suppliers face because of Microsoft. So, although a stronger "Ubuntu" strategy would be a hedge against that risk, Ubuntu, itself, isn't necessarily _the_ solution. Indeed, this could be worded differently and I'm open to suggestions. This, again, is why I believe we should be able to edit our own submissions, because, as I think you already know, a number of us, myself included, have significantly modified submissions based on subsequent discussion IN the comments.
jackie_c Apr 10	Right, but the comments should not change the just of the idea. The only reason I asked if it could be a comment is because you say "Another reason Dell".......and if this is another reason, then there is another one already here. All I see in the idea post is a reason Dell should support Ubuntu and an article to support that. I see the comment where you mentioned the idea after the fact, but is this not something that has already been discussed in an idea?
phubert Apr 10	Well, I guess you know I disagree, Jackie. I've always seen submissions as openings TO discussion and felt that the _discussion_ should, at the discretion of the submitter, be able to _shape_ or _revise_ the suggestion. To me, discussion can give the idea a completely new form, thanks to the useful perspectives of the participants.
phubert Apr 10	As I said, the wording, perhaps, could change, but WHERE do you think this would fit AS a comment, Jackie? I know I shouldn't place the burden upon you, by any means, but at the moment I can't think of a place. Again, I'm also open to re-phrasing the submission to enable it to stand independently. Let's see: "Dell needs to develop a backup strategy to the risk Microsoft poses to the industry" Would that work better? No need to mention Ubuntu or Linux in the suggestion at all.
phubert Apr 10	and the risk could become riskier... Member of EU Parliament asks if Microsoft should be excluded from public procurement **** http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20080410050845876
jackie_c Apr 10	@phubert: If you want to reword the content of the idea, please let me know. However, in the future, if there is not an idea included in the post, it will be removed.
jervis961 Apr 10	Sounds reasonable.
phubert Apr 10	Yes, Jackie, reword as follows: "Dell needs to develop a backup strategy to the risk Microsoft poses to the industry"
phubert Apr 11	Gartner explains where MS went wrong AT THE Gartner Emerging Trends conference this week, analysts said that Microsoft's operating system development times are too long and fail to deliver genuine innovation. **** http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/04/11/gartner-explains-micro...
phubert Apr 11	IDC explains where Linux went right IDC RESEARCHERS reckon that the Linux market will be worth almost $50 billion by 2011. **** http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/04/11/idc-explains-linux-wen...
epic4life Apr 12	Its funny how phubert has 3/5 of the comments in his own post, it is also funny how 1/3 of those commments are speculation from anti-microsoft websites. It seems to me that almost a year has gone by since the EU and Europe has said they would exclude MS, but stil, we are all waiting to see this final product of the EU without MS lol. This is just like the 15 year wait that has been going on with linux actually getting marketshare... Its so funny to me that 90% of the people who post, love linux so much, they post all the time and the amount of people that make up that 90% is less than 1000 and of those people, probably 4% own a dell. dell I vote for a new site for CUSTOMER ideas and reviews. Most of your customers are sick of reading this nonsense, most of your customers use MS and most of your customer don't want another option. I don't know who at dell thought it would be progressive to let ANYONE join a INTERNET forum in this day in age, but this site has certainly shown to take possible ideas and replace them with loser trolls who live in their basement who promote linux. Make people own a dell before they can recommend a idea. You would see this site change dramatically. My ideastorm login should be connected to my dell login and as a customer who purchases dells yearly, I should have a voice, not some kid who doesn't have a dollar to his name from EU. my 2cents EpiC
epic4life Apr 12	the only backup strategy dell needs is to stop wasting its money promoting a linux based OS that is 1. Unfinished 2 incompatible 3. not able to work with 95% of software in the world. 4. not able to play video games that make up one of the largest industries in the world 5. userbase is made up of anit-ms nerds...
jervis961 Apr 12	Actually since this site started I've gone from die hard MS geek to becoming more aware of the true issues. At first I lashed out against Linux and thought the same way you do. Over time I have become more open to Linux and even Apple (BOO!) as I feel that to truly understand what you are talking about you need to look at things from both sides. MS has enjoyed the benefit of pretty much owning the industry and not having to worry so they have become lax at making improvements. If windows was so awesome why would anyone even try to create an OS like Linux? Step back and look at how things are going in the industry 1) Apple sales are surging 2) Ubuntu is selling better than Dell expected 3) Vista complaints are getting worse not better (don't try to compare to the XP launch as we are beyond that). People have started to wake up and realize that other choices are available. Dell needs to make the move NOW rather than wait until nobody is buying their systems anymore. I would be happy to see MS make a huge turnaround and make an OS that is less bulky, more responsive and more secure but I don't see it happening. I think you will see MS loosing market share over the next few years and they know it. Why do you think the company is branching out into game consoles and internet TV? They see the writing on the wall and are trying to slow the process while they regroup.
epic4life Apr 12	Once again, this has been said for the past 10 years lol. Once again, linux fails to deliver in almost every entertainment aspect offered by Apple and MS. Once again, i own a ubuntu server and a macbook pro, and every computer I own has VMware on it with some sort of linux distro. Once again, comparing 90% of the computers in the world security and comparing the other 10% security is flat out dumb. If the world switched to linux, there would still be viruses, ID theft, hacks, credit card fraud and just about everythign tthere is now with windows. So, please stop the security whining. Once again, Ubuntu didn't sell like walmart expected, it didn't sell like newegg expected and I am sure dell see's that their figures are also lower than they expected. ______________ Finally, the vista release in a years time is in the same state as XP was in a years time, the only different is that Apple wasn't a major competitor on the market so there was really nothing to compare XP too.....please, don't believe the stupid MAC commercials. Unlike you jev, I started as a hardcore linux person and realized that the community is made up of egotistical fools that can not compete with MS or Apple (hence 30 distros that do basically the same thing). Apple owns the music market, MS owns the gaming market, what does Linux own? Corporate servers? That does me and you absolutely no good in the consumer world. EpiC
jervis961 Apr 12	I wasn't speaking about security issues as i am fully aware that all software has weaknesses to be exploited. I'm talking more of value vs cost. I told you not to try and compare Vista now to XP in the same time frame and here is why. I upgraded to XP at launch as well as Vista and I do see a difference in their situations. XP had its issues but they were largely fixed with SP1 unlike Vista. This time MS released minimum requirements that they knew would not be able to run the full program and many people are upset about that. Vista's performance is not any better while XP was an improvement over it's predecessor. These kinds of issues are making people look at the alternatives. I do understand your points on Linux and concede that I do not have much experience with it. I'm just stating that people are looking and MS know it's days of ruling the roost are numbered as nothing lasts forever, just look at netscape. :D
epic4life Apr 13	as a gamer the difference in dx10 vs dx9 are night and day. So vista is better than xp in that regard. XP didn't come to its own until sp2. Vista will be the same. I have a brand new dell with vista and I have had no trouble, no performance issues, no compatibility issues....sure vista isn't made for old hardware, and for those who try to install it on old hardware, experince the nightmares of compatibility and performace issues, I feel they deserve it. It makes me laugh that linux and its followers talk like it is a eMACulate OS with ZERO problems. I installed linux ubuntu server on my old xp machine and it freeze constantly and needs rebooting. In fact, linux in VMware in the windows vista environment, works better than my ubuntu server.... Once again, people who use linux, use it on older hardware and computers they build themselves. There is no one who is going to spend 5 thousand dollars on a xps machine, just to put linux on it....they are going to use that power for their windows only graphics programs, windows only games and windows only superior office suite.... Linux is the step child OS compared to Apple and MS and this will never change. The MARKET sells computers, not freebie OS'S that are run by people in their basement.... jumping on the linux bandwagon means you have no concept of business or consumer needs...... EpiC
jervis961 Apr 14	Just to clarify. You think that anyone with old hardware that believed what MS said was the minimum requirements to run Vista deserve to have been misled? Back in the day Apple was going under and people said that their OS would always be a step child OS but look at them now. I'm not talking about microseconds here epic, when was the last time you booted XP and compared it to Vista? Wait don't bother ZDnet has done it for you, here is a link to XP sp2 vs Vista sp1 performance. http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=1332 I'm not jumping on the bandwagon as, like I have said, I still use Vista but have been looking at the alternatives like many other customers. I think I have more concept of business and consumer needs than you think.
epic4life Apr 14	The only reason MAC is SUCCESSFUL is two things 1) Devices - IPOD, IPHONE and DRM 2) They are highend computers equalling three times the cost of a normal dell or windows pc....Of course there will be a market trend for that, just like there is a market trend for $1000 handbags... _________________________________ boot time makes no difference in my world and honestly, it is stupid to rate a OS by it lol. MY computer stays on 24/7 and when I do reboot, I am usually watching TV, not staring at my monitor to watch advertisements of my mobo, dell and MS lol with a stop watch. The fact is that Vista and every other windows OS can do 1000x more things than linux and apple put together. This is something a few microseconds difference in performance can get a cold sholder to b/c you can have the ability to use 1000's of programs that are easy to find at any bestbuy and that jervis is why windows will always win....The Freeware movement is not going to giveway CD's at best buy..... Finally, you even remotely supporting Linux shows you have zero conecept of the computer hardware and software market......If the computer market is a car, MS is definitely the wheels. Like I have told my other young linux zealots here on this site, the last 15 years we have been discussing how linux will be the next big thing, this year will be no different except for one thing, Apple is now the second choice and consumers don't need three totally different choice..... Btw, please stop quoting blogs, theinquirer, and linux fanboys....its the year 2008, everyone thinks their opinion matters on the Internet, whether it is fact or fiction....quote me some business stats from MS, b/c that will show all your favorite blog writers from all of your favorite linux sites to be incorrect in many different areas....(except vista being slow at start up lol). I believe linux is for some people, I used linux quite often, but I also use windows and every one of my friends use windows, not b/c windows is better than linux, but b/c windows is better for them.....Linux, no matter what the zealots say, it not user friendly for 90% of computer consumers in the world......ubuntu is held in high standards, but it still is a pain to get working, even more of a pain that vista and that is the story your friends like phubert don't tell....the nightmares of linux lol (its a heck of a nightmare when it doens't work too) EpiC
jervis961 Apr 14	I can see I will not anywhere with you epic so I will stop. This is not me admitting I'm wrong or that you are smarter, just saying that I can see that you have a closed mind on the subject.
phubert Apr 14	so, epic, you're a gamer? Yes? No?
jervis961 Apr 14	He does own an XPS so I think he may be. Then again I like the XPS and I'm more of a console gamer.
epic4life Apr 14	Well me and the other 90% of the people who own computers will stay on our side and you and your 2% can stay on your side.... Console gaming? Xbox is the best online console gaming machine: Fact ( 10x more members online then ps3 and wii) Yes phubert I am, and WINE stinks for games.: Fact You dont have to admit your are wrong, facts prove you are wrong.....b/c people like me will always buy windows, not b/c we are closed minded, but b/c we want to put our systems to use, not sit here and forum troll about the capabiliteis of linux if everyone would switch over... Once again, 15 years in the making (the movement), once again failing over and over again Linux is good for nerdy stuff, not my cousin who wants to sync there ipod and music or play video games..... EpiC
phubert Apr 14	If you are primarily a gamer, Epic, your comments are entirely irrelevant to any discussion I might become involved in at this site. My only concerns are for serious uses of computers, from home/home office, through Education and non-profits, to SMB's and Government/large enterprise. Entertainment and games have no interest for me and, to me, no serious relevance to the industry as a whole. I'm sure that hardware manufacturers appreciate the higher-margin gaming systems sales, but I doubt they have any significant impact on the bottom line or on overall market share.
epic4life Apr 14	Once again, you comments are empty with no base in fact phubert. Its funny how Blizzard (world of warcraft) generates 150 million dollars a month........that is on one game and that is almost 2 billion a year on ONE game....I suggest you look at the seriousness you speak of, b/c when you add up every game and every gaming design companies profits, it totalls more than most companies and industries period. So yes, I am a gamer and that is where I base my consumer opinion, but I also work for a highly respected government agency and I can tell you that Zero % of all computers used by employees are linux based, That means 100% of all computers are MS. I can also speak for other agencies, that 100% of their computers are MS as well. So your government, at least the US government, doesn't want your linux fluff... I love how you say home/home office as if people who by high end computers don't want to use it for anything fun....I won't go out on a limb here, but most high end computers are purchased for entertainment and multimedia, not your so called SERIOUS uses of computers...... Your mentality of what is SERIOUS is why linux continues to fail every year. The people behind the making of each linux distro dont get that to make linux succesful is not from a SERIOUS stance, but rather consumer acceptance with NON-SERIOUS activities ( IE IPOD, IPHONES Success). Most people that make decsiions in what their OS platform should be, have a home computer as well and if they are familiar with windows in a NON-SERIOUS capacity, then they are more likely to use windows in a SERIOUS capacity as well. the only figure you need to read over and over again is 90% and 15 years of all talk.....You guys talk like linux has invented a wheel, but in actuality, they are trying to reinvent it (Standard windows gui, OPEN OFFICE RIP, various other rips)......I have said this before, if linux was better it would be used more than windows......windows and apple cost 200+ dollars and a free linux OS is still not denting the market.... gratz on being in last place and cheering for the last place team, it is truely honorable EpiC
jervis961 Apr 14	Windows may have 92% market share but that is when you combine all the versions of Windows. Vista only has 14% market share compared to 74% for XP. With the current loss in performance from Vista (if you read the article you would see that it is worse at more than just boot times) it is leaving a door open for other systems to steal away market share. In the last year Windows has lost market share while Apple and Linux have gained. It may not be a huge gain but it shows that people are looking at alternatives like I have said. Nobody has ever said Windows will be gone in X number of years, just that currently it appears to be losing its grip due to the fumbling of Microsoft. If you would like a look at the facts here is a link to the site that I got the information from. http://marketshare.hitslink.com/ While you like to dismiss anything that goes against your beliefs I tend to actually study things and come to an educated opinion. I suggest you try it sometime. :D By the way what part of government are you in? Local, state or federal?
epic4life Apr 14	I am in the Federal government.... Jerv, once again I mean no disrepect, but you have to understand what I believe stems from the facts you just linked lol. 92% of a product that is probably up to 500 million computers world wide is amazing for any company. Once again, I am saying WINDOWS/MS will never be replaced, not 98,xp,me,vista etc.....Those people currently running xp, will probably upgrade to windows 7 and those people who upgraded to vista will do the same....but the thing they both have in common, is they are windows users..... I laugh b/c pure statistics and mathematics prove that what I say is correct. The only market share linux and apple have gained is through households with more than one computer and most households that buy apple or linux already have a windows desktop. It is just common sense that the more computer sold in the world, the better chance for them to be something other than windows, since old computers are replaced every 2-3 years. 92% in the year 2008 is simple amazing, but you and phubert talk like linux actually made a impact in the market, and that is very far from the truth and the future is dim for the linux movenment with absoulutely no financial backing compared to MS and Apple. Think about this again, gaming idustry alone supports MS with 10 of billions.......linux cannot compete with this. EpiC
jervis961 Apr 14	Looks like we have all the different levels of government covered here. :D I'm local, phubert is state and you have federal covered. All I'm saying is that MS is in the position of power at this time but with the way they are acting some people ARE looking elsewhere. I don't think there will be a mass exodus or anything but they will continue to lose market share it is just the nature of th business. In April of 2006 MS had 95% of the OS segment and 84% of the browser segment compared to now having 92% OS and 75% browser share. Sure MS will shrug it off but how many percentage points will they have to lose before they realize that there is a problem? You are talking about only the current times while I am speaking of overall trends. People used to think netscape was an unstoppable force with a huge market share and refused to see otherwise until it was too late. Nobody can predict the future, so while it may be improbable to see linux become more mainstream, never say never. Actually I think Apple has a better shot at it because they are a well known company that will back up the product. Linux's big weakness is that it doesn't have that at this time but with Ubuntu things are changing. Dell is now backing the OS with service which gives it more value. Over time if more companies start to back a single distro and supply support it will gain market share. Why do you think MS is fighting open source so much if there is no threat?
epic4life Apr 14	MS has always fought against open source, today and 15 years ago, this isn't a new trend for them. Apple is now in the fight too, so linux has no chance to survice with the 1000's of software companies, gaming companies and music companies backing MS and Apple. AOL/NETSCAPE was destined to fail. I have always been a Firefox/IE person depending on the computer I am on. Firefox does some cool things for my investigations and IE integrates with my LIVE, both very useful. I am going to try to sum up all the mathematics by breif statements. If MS owns 92% of the market share at 500 Million units and in 10 years they go down to 85% at 1 billion units, they are still growing and making money due to more units sold, but the overall total of units would be greater than it was at the 92% mark. Thus giving linux and apple more market share, but still millions behind MS. We live in a time where 3rd world countries are now adopting computers before industry. In nigeria, one of the poorest countries in the world, Internet cafe's are everywhere. In that, linux or pirated copys of windows will be most prevelant. Linux exists for people who know what to do with it. I am a linux user by heart, but in no way is my Backtrack3/Ubuntu setup easier to use than my Vista/XP/OSX setup. To comment on browsers: What does browser use actually mean? Firefox has shown us that security on Open source is just as bad as IE and that there is no real benefit in security in either browser type. Once again, since safari sucks, more MAC users go with firefox, all linux users go with firefox and some windows users have both IE and Firefox, but browser (since they are free) mean nothing to MS's reign in the overall marekt. Linux and firefox are two totally different beasts and comparing them is non-sense. 2006-2008 MS may have lost the brower war ( equating to losing virtually zero dollars) But from 2006-2008 they have invested in the #1 gaming console "Xbox" making them billions....Give and take, I think MS has made the correct business moves to secure their future. I too speak of current trends and when all the friends I know buy either MAC or Windows it is hard for me agree that Linux is making a substantial move in the market. I love my backtrack3, but I am sure my grandma wouldn't even know how to initiate the gui in linux, let alone understand sudo, commandline etc.... I hope that linux succeeds, just not in the dell/desktop market. I want them to become more specialized, not a rip off of windows and mac. I want to see something unique, not people reinventing the wheel. my 2cents EpiC
sugarbear Apr 14	I have a different perspective on this. I use windows and Linux(Sabayon). I like both Os`s and use both for entirely different machines and purposes. The Linux community dosen`t have the billions in resources to fix the wheel, like Microsoft does. I also feel Microsoft overcharges for their os`s. and is a monopoly. I get very tired of the constant flame wars on this site and every where else. Simply put: let the buyer have what ever os he or she desires.
phubert Apr 15	For all their billions, SB, they have one heckuva lot of broken wheels! Seems NOT having the billions works far better. Then, Microsoft is motivated by greed and power... much of OSS is not. Still, at the same time, the profit motive IS clearly at work with Linux/OSS as considerable support is coming from large CORPORATIONS, such as IBM, Oracle, and Sun. And, by the way, IBM still is MUCH larger than Microsoft. The big advantages to Linux/OSS are FREEDOM (from single vendor control) and CHOICE... many choices.
epic4life Apr 15	phubert you seriously talk like my ubuntu server doesn't have 25+ patches a week lol. Linux is just as bad as MS when it comes to "Broken" wheels, especially in the consumer distros. The only reason why MS may seem to have more broken wheels to you is that it does 1000 more things, its compatible with 1000 more programs and is used on 1000 different hardware configurations....so common sense tells anyone that more variables equals more problems.... Just as long as people follow instruction like "Vista Compatible" just like you follow instructions that say "Linux compatible" you are good to go. If you tried to get a windows only program to work on linux, you would have lots of problems too. I do agree the OS costs to much, but MAC is double the price of a windows pc.... EpiC
jervis961 Apr 15	I think that is part of the problem people have with MS. They have all this money and programmers but their software is still released full of bugs. When people complain MS just shrugs it off and eventually provides an update. I was going to say they have lost touch with the customer but then I wondered "have they ever been in touch?". :D Perhaps my issues with MS are less with the OS and more with the company attitude. I used MS Money for years and liked that I could download the free Windows mobile version to keep my checkbook on the go. A couple of years ago MS decided to drop the mobile program and made the new Money program incompatible with it but never warned the customers. When I did my upgrade and discovered the lack of support I complained on the MS forum I gut the cold shoulder so I switched to Quicken. I actually threw out a brand new program and changed to a different one because of the wayMS ignored the customer. I recently went the same route with My mobile phone and switched to a blackberry. I had Windows Mobile 5 which was clunky and updated to a WM 6 phone because they claimed it would be better. I found that it was basically the old program with a new skin, was just as slow and the biggest change was that my phone would call people on its own(sitting on the counter for hours it would call the last person I had talked to). I would say that the one place MS has done well is the Xbox division. I bought the original on day 1 and loved the system. I bought the 360 at launch and still love it (even if I'm on system #2 now). MS is listening to the customer because they need to if they want to gain market share and beat the competition. Once they win in an area the ears stop working though so I hope PS3 and Wii do well.
phubert Apr 15	Actually, Epic, I wasn't referring just to the OS, but rather to the entire stable of horrific Microsoft software... of which Visual Studio .Net may be a real exception.
phubert Apr 15	Further, any _quantity_ of patches is really no measure at all.
phubert Apr 15	Bugs are the tiniest part of the problem with MS. Office 12 incompatibility with Office 11 is ONE example. MS has historically been poor at its own FILE backward compatibility. Then we have Sharepoint 1.1 with NO migration path to Sharepoint 2.0... but oh so many more. And, we have the incompatibility of one MS app with another run on the same server... which is ONE reason why virtualizing Windows servers is SOOO attractive and so cost-effective (all that bloody hardware wouldn't have been needed in the first place if the environment had been build on UNIX/Linux!).
jervis961 Apr 15	You know I've been looking for a good HTML editor to help out on sites like this(I keep forgetting the proper format) I have Office word 07 I can use but it is kinda slow to get into and I don't like the interface that much. I checked for a specialized MS program to do it but man they are expensive for someone just looking to us it for web posting on sites like this. The only one I find that is simple and fits my needs is in the SeaMonkey suite. Unfortunately I only want the one part of the suite and they don't allow that. :( A little off topic but whatever.
phubert Apr 15	Another way of looking at the Windows vs. UNIX issue is this: UNIX may be more difficult, but that, in turn, requires a higher level of skill which, in turn, produces greater attention to sound DESIGN and PROGRAMMING which, although potentially more costly upfront, produces more stable, more easily managed and maintained systems that, in turn, can SCALE more easily.
jervis961 Apr 15	Dell sees a future with Linux in it... http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/news/index.cfm?RSS&NewsID=12728
jervis961 Apr 15	To be fair I will even post a link that backs Epic's opinions. :D http://education.zdnet.com/?p=1626
sugarbear Apr 15	Another Dell Linux article. http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&artic...
sugarbear Apr 15	epic4life, you should read these .http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&artic... and this is regards to your above .http://www.pcmech.com:80/article/why-use-linux/
paperpilot Apr 16	I read in NetworkWorld that tDell will ship a $400 Linux PC in June. That sounds like a strategy to me. I'll keep watching the Dell site to see what happens.
epic4life Apr 16	guys, i am sure you are all very smart in your respected fields, but guess what? You can just post INTERNET links from BLOGERS and make me feel like the Facts (92% of the market, #1 OS, etc) are not reality lol. I love to study freakanomics (study of two or more unrelated things) and it fasinates me that in 2008 we see trends in attacks on "Popular" things contributed to the advent of forums, blogs, internet publishings whereas 15 years ago, most publishes were based on market facts, rather than opinion or some no body lol I think this can be directly applied to most of the links you guys post. Even though all these bad threads, blogs and articles are coming out, that 92% hasn't budged.... Just because someone writes a artcle about something, doesn't mean anything, especailly when there are equal number of articles written explaining how linux fails too..... it comes down to who can link more, and I don't play that game anymore on this site. The facts are there, when that 92% gets down to 60%, I will start believing. I have told you on other threads that if linux can run Games (NON SERIOUS COMPUTER ACTIVITIES) then I will make it my main system, until then, it just a simple rip of windows and apple I want link to have its place, but Dell having a backup plan b/c MS is Evil....rediculous.... EpiC
jervis961 Apr 17	Well they had 95% just 2 years ago which put the average loss at 1.5% per year. So I'll check back with you in in about 21 years right? I think MS needs to look into improving before they get down to 60%. The idea isn't to rest and then play catch up but stay ahead the whole time. While you dismiss bloggers, just remember that they can be the earliest indicators of a problem. Bloggers complained about Dell long before they started to sink. Why do you think Dell is now trying to listen? Catch problems early to avoid market share loss, Dell learned the hard way as MS will as well if they don't change.
epic4life Apr 17	so do we want MS to fail and linux to win or do we want MS to win and linux to fail? I don't get you linux zealots lol Bloggers are usually successful the same reason TV News is succesful, they attack things most people like, think to be popular, etc....A blogger explaining to his readers why MS hold 92% of the marketshare week after week doesn't get readers, b/c the readers are just reading what they already know, but a blogger who trashes the number 1 OS will incite anger with most people and joy for a small faction of followers. I agree with all of you that MS is not perfect and EVERY os needs improvements, but MS has a bigger task of compatibilty than both Linux and Apple combined. Even though it is not an excuse to release a product that isn't finish, the Computer software/OS market doesn't fit this mold b/c the world is constantly changing and the variebles are so abundant that it is hard for any company to make a final product on release.... I hope linux finds it niche, I just don't think it will be in the power desktop market EpiC
paperpilot Apr 17	Epic: I don’t understand why operating systems are even a subject in the 21st century. All operating systems need to do is carry the water for applications. After all, Linux is just a kernel. It assigns resources, schedules tasks, finds files, and does all the other background things that allows applications to run. Ubuntu provides Linux and a bunch of applications in a pretty package. MS Windows has a kernel embedded in it, but it also has applications so tightly tied to it that they cannot be separated. In a sane world, each kernel would be written to use a standard API. I could then buy a machine with a Linux kernel and use any user interface (UI) I wished, even windows. If I wanted a game machine, I wouldn’t have it loaded down with other products. Today we have a choice of one of two radically different worlds. I just want the choice made easier. If Dell will allow me my choice, I say “Hurray for Dell!”
epic4life Apr 17	paper I can make my own windows boot disk with anyhting I want on it......you can be just as savy as a linux user to do it. also, LOOK AT THE TOPIC, that is why I am here again, b/c of the radicalism of linux fanbois on this site.... MS owns the industry, not poses a risk to it lol.... Ubuntu can be very very ugly..... EpiC
phubert May 23	More trouble for Microsoft??? Apple will rule the living room by 2013, Forrester says Look for home servers and other AV-to-IT gear installed by Apple Geniuses **** http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&artic...
phubert May 23	That, however, isn't all... A co-worker, a senior DBA who has helped other staff fix or build Windows machines for years, recently bought his eldest son a Mac Book (or whatever their latest, greatest laptop is) and is so impressed he said all his family's FUTURE computers will be Apple's. As he put it "No more of that Windows junk!"
phubert May 23	So, what is DELL's alternative? Linux???? Dell needs to help Ubuntu BECOME the alternative to APPLE!
jervis961 May 23	I agree Phubert. Apple already owns 66% of the market of computers priced over $1000 lately. http://www.macnn.com/articles/08/05/19/apple.share.at.66.percent/ As much as I don't want to buy Apple, I have kept up with news on them as MS had soured me lately. Vista may very well be the end of MS unless they pull thier head ot of thier..... the sand, yeah that's it.( I think you get the point). I've been trying Ubuntu but can't really "get into it" yet and I like what Apple is doing with integrated video and picture editing. What I don't like about Apple is thier attitude and refusal to let other companies use thier OS. If Dell was allowed to use Apple's OS I would probably run out and buy one (if it had good specs of course) but otherwise I just see them as another future monopoly. They could actually grow to be worse than Microsoft since they control the hardware as well as the software for thier systems.
phubert May 23	Right. If apple opened-up, their market share would skyrocket... but really they're even MORE proprietary than Microsoft!
paperpilot May 23	DELL is not going to create the Linux market; that is up to you and me, but they will hop on the bandwagon. If Linux is going to grow, you and I will have to help friends move off of Windows. The best we can expect from DELL is to expand the Ubuntu option to more computer models. DELL is not going to advertise Linux if the ball isn't already rolling.
phubert May 23	Well, paperpilot, I'm sure you recognize that my argument here (and in my latest submission) is that Dell's business could be impacted by fading prospects for Microsoft. The latest one is more to the point since it cites Apple's incursions. If Dell is able to perceive that it is in its best interests to very seriously 'hedge their bets', direct, or at least _greater_ support for Linux might well be 'in the cards' for them...

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